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Hi allmy dog Sam is coming along well.Had good hunt in weekend i want her at 3-5meters in front of me. She seems to be want to be out further.Lost a deer in weekend due to her been to far out Any tips to keep her in my range? Or just go back to basic on lead? Just immpossible to have her on lead in tight bush.Thanks.
Go back to a 6m bit of cord or light rope, i let the dog work in front and every now and again stand on the rope.
Also go back to the basics just to reinforce the range with the dog with out having the distraction of deer
Yep thats exactly what i thought! No magic quick fix. Lol.
dont be afraid to use single quiet whistle.....everytime dog gets to your limit....or better still your stop whistle...the dog soon "gets message" my bitch makes a game of it when she in funny mood she stops and looks back,trots 4-5mtrs then stops again and again and again....smart bitch.she knows if doesnt stay in range the lead will come out or be made to get in behind...we both hate that.
@Mohawk660 This is a common problem but one you have to get under control ASAP or it leads on to a whole lot of other problems .With my dogs over the last few decades (Visla,GSP,Lab & farm working dogs ), being able to have them stay in a workable space close to you is essential & l have always put a heavy importance on hand signals, to be able to "stealth"control in the field .
A lot of people over think dog training ,what l do from the beginning in training is get the dog use to handle signals & most importantly reinforce the basics of sit ,heal & stay which all are started/used with both basic word & hand signal on lead, then off lead once mastered ,get the dog very comfortable with these before anything else .You will then find the young dog looking at you for direction ,this is where starting with hand signals excels as the habit of looking at you for direction becomes a circuit breaker to over excitement .
Once you have the dog doing those 3 basics ,while it is healing properly l introduce 'Walk Up' command where the dog is allowed to walk in front of you ,again start it on a lead of short distance (couple of metres) then extended with a longer rope lead to what ever distance you choose .
The silent walk up signal l use is a cupped hand down by your waist with a sweeping motion forward ,l find a good way to get the young dog looking/ watching for hand signals is to have a treat in the hand .So for starting the 'walk up'& staying in wanted distance the sequence would be ,dog on close 'heal',walk up sweeping hand command, once it is staying in proper 'walk up' distance for a while,call back to heal (l use a tap on hip with my hand) & give a treat from that hand when it properly responds & then while training keep repeating the process .
Tip while Training /playing fetch l have bit of Velcro on my belt & stick tennis ball to it ,l find it gets dog to lock on to the hand at the hip for later directions.
For me this is one of the most important training a dog can get ,but it is does not have to be overly complicated to train for ,start in the quiet of your yard etc where there are no distractions,then while on lead walking outside the yard & it is something you can constantly do easily while walking on tracks etc that also supply a good balance of doggy distractions that it must be learn to ignore while taking commands .
So as a example at first while walking on quiet track,park etc l start off with a long lead 3-4 mtr lead ,dog gets reinforcement exercise first at start of walk ,with 'Sit,Stay & Heal' all using/complimented with hand signal ie SIT is palm down motion a follow on from first putting palm on its bum to know what sit is ,HEAL -point at ground next to where you want it to Heal -STAY palm up in stop motion .
.While walking comfortably at heal give spoken 'Walk Up' & sweeping hand signal (dog being at heal should have face couple of inches away from hand ),if as usual when young dog starting off it wants to run ahead too far,use lead to strictly enforce distance limit ,as soon as dog is comfortably walking at proper distance ,give heal command (verbal & tapping hip) & give treat from the heal side hand & repeat process 2 million times :thumbsup:
IMO Stay is another important hunting instruction over looked by many & you must get down pat as it becomes a safety aid when approaching wounded game, agro animals like pigs or even sketchy ground .Your dog should be comfortable sitting at stay even while you are out of sight & l like to have a auto response of once released from stay it comes to heal,so if you are approaching something sketchy it is not running forward into unwanted areas.
To get the pups use to hand signals l use them around the home more than voice & reinforce it with treats given out of the 'command hand' ie for me right hand.So what you end up with is the dog becomes more attentive to you & will start watching you for the commands, IMO a extremely important function in the field & something that makes dogs stand apart as a hunting team .
So the KISS tip would be FIRST ALL USING HAND/VOICE -Get dog properly Sit ,Heal & Stay -Then work on Heal & Walk Up on lead - Then all the same off of the lead . Use treats out of 'command hand' ,while the usual doggy biscuits are good treats ,this type of training is also a good excuse for making Venison Jerky that a doggy version more biltong than jerky ie less sauces etc )
My current dogs a semi retired 8 yr old Lab & Vizsla 3yr old pup ( like all Vizsla & GSP only 5 more years till it grows up ) & all my working dogs are that comfortable with looking at me for hand signals, they now even act on head nods to know what to do.The advantage of being able to silently instruct the dog in the field is huge & IMO it gets them smarter & more switched on that they are a important part of your pack as they are constantly watching /looking at you deep in the eyes while you are on a hot hunt or just at home ( it drives my missus nuts as she reckons me & the hounds look at each more romantically in the eyes ,than l do to her:P )& for me they seem to learn not only quicker, but a better understanding of what & why you want them to follow the command .
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It is hard explaining not knowing breeds ,age or where you physically live, but those basics have worked well for me over the decades & like l say IMO having a dog properly 'Walk Up' is one of the most important things you can train it to do both for good hunting & safety ,while hunting with others ,working around farm animals or in urban environments .I have also found it extremely important when guiding & having your dog working in front of others you have only just met but also importantly when hunting with other dogs .
Hope that makes sense & if you need any help just give us a yell if l can help l will ,great you have picked it up early & something you can work on easily at home daily .The work will pay off in forming a great working team & the compliments you get on how well the dog performs in the field.
Good Luck & give the hound a pat from me :thumbsup:
had a blue heeler collie cross that i trained to hand signals, not for hunting but as a gaurd dog. Really good at night looking for burglars in a wrecking yard. Came in handy when she was old as she went deaf
Thanks Bunji for the informative and detailed advice, its much appreciated!!Quote:
Originally Posted by bunji
"Thanks Bunji for the informative and detailed advice, its much appreciated!!"
@Mohawk660 No worries mate ,l am a 60's child who grew up on a mixed Cattle & Sheep farm in the Kiwi bush back blocks, so had 4 working dogs laying next to me on the baby rug on the floor at first day at home at 2 days old ¬hing much has changed as far as hounds in my life since.Dad had a team o 8 working dogs all his life, that were renowned & off spring highly sought after by locals.Also us older blokes grew up in a era where properly trained & behaved dogs were a point of pride for a whole family not just something to post pics on Idiot Book of & then locked away & forgotten in a Slumburbian back yard or dog run .
As l get older l get just as much enjoyment now out of my hunting putting others on to "Trophy" heads & helping them pick up hunting skills in the field & one of my great joys for a very long time is hunting over a good working dog whether the game if feather or fur . So if anyone younger who did not grow up where working & hunting dogs were worked nearly every day of their lives & the owners were happy to share advice ,feel free to simply ask for help, if l can help l will & l am sure others will as well :thumbsup:
For anyone starting out with training a new pup/dog, my advice is stick to the K.I.S.S. principle - First off you will be fine ,have confidence in your self ,dogs pick up on hesitation /lack of confidence ,do not over think it & make sure the basics of Sit,Heal,Stay are mastered first,everything else will flow on from that & make it much easier on you & the dog & with the proper praise & reward the dogs start looking to learn & do more to please you .
Good Luck everyone starting out ,it is a wild & at times frustrating ride training a pup up into a great hunting/working companion , but you will be rewarded for the rest of your life & even when they have long passed you will look back at your times together as some of the best of your life & still get a chuckle out of their antics. :thumbsup:
I am not criticizing anyone and thanks for the info. Just trying to clear something up in my little mind. If the dog is 3 or 4 m ahead traveling at hopefully at your pace is he not tracking/winding and leading you to indicate when prey is visible. But when at heal are you tracking and leading the dog to the pray ???. My pup 4 months old on the blueprint but family pet as well so taking it slowly. Frustrating little bastard then other times bloody beauty, but probably picking up when I have had a shit day at work with him thinking let me wreck his day completely
@chindit The dog does not stop working just because it is at Heal ,what we are talking about is as in your example the dog has locked on or indicted game ,when it comes to the shot you do not want to be shooting over your dog ,even with a suppressor you will fuck up their hearing no differently had some one done it to you,so before l take a shot the dogs are at heal behind me still locking on/indicating & l usually try to even take a couple of steps forward to give them a bit more hearing protection,so they now just stay at the heal spot once l bring the rifle up .
So to try to explain a bit better for you in a hunting example ,what my normal method is depending on country (obviously open ,unlikely game carrying flats etc, l am comfortable in dog working a bit further out),in the thick stuff l do a lot o hunting in locally, the dog normally works 1-4 mtrs max in front.
Dog starts indicating & once it is locked on l give instruction to stay ,while l confirm it is targeted animal ie if after trophy rather than meat animal etc etc .I move up to get in best position for shot .
Dog is instructed to Heal as its job is done for now & to protect its hearing ,normally step a couple of steps forward to protect its hearing & take shot .
Shot taken & game down, dog is released to go 'find'.
Word of warning -You will never have a greater feeling of letting down the team than missing a shot & looking back to see the look of disgust in the dopey bastards eyes. :wtfsmilie:
Hopefully this also shows a bit why l like silent hand signals rather than whistles or calling & how having them actually looking back at you for encouragement & instruction works best for my style of hunting over the years .With my hounds once they are on to something, usually the dopey bastards starts visibly tensing up,over exaggerating sniffing ,wagging tail in excited fashion & most importantly it seems for it, looking back at me to criticize,how noisy l am ,how dopey l am for not wagging my bum like her & making sure even a inferior intelligence being like me understands they have found game & why aren't you as excited .:P
As l said in the other post what l have over many years is after you have worked as a team using the hand signals, they respond to even head nods or even pointing with your chin,but this is just a handy off shoot of them switching on to what the team needs for success & trust in your instruction .Something that takes head strong breeds like Vizsla ,Weimaraner & GSP etc a long time to accept ,.as they all think we are idiots & it is their way or nothing as pups, which for them bastards is up until they are 5 yrs old if you are lucky :P
Your pup is at a critical age where it will think it knows best & be easily distracted so as much training of the basics of Sit ,Heal & Stay is important , if home is full of distractions ie other pets,kids,visible passing traffic & noise etc, moving to a quieter area for training will pay off.Also important to remember at the early stages/age all time with them is training ie make games ,playing a training exercise that is still fun for you both.
Hope that helps if you have any other questions feel free to ask ,if l can help l will. :thumbsup:
After mastering behind with my dog which in the end a walking poll for that extra reach for a quick whack on the rump solved the miss understanding and now she knows what I am talking about.
For ranging too far I use the command "psst" which is quite but commanding enough for her to come back.
If this doesn't work after a while go back to the stick or walking poll. Doesn't take too many sessions.
I am not a fan of the lead or rope. I just pefer my dog to understand what I am commanding first
Everything that bunji said. You can spend hundreds of dollars on videos or follow the advice given above. The one thing I did for my current dog was get an e collar. I use the vibrate function as a stay in closer command. No verbal command required. The dog I have at the moment is particularly stubborn and will take the piss if she thinks she can. The vibrate is awesome as I just remind her now and then that she's hunting with me. Not for herself.
Been through this with Bo, more so in the last month or so, I think he's at that teenager stage where he knows what's what but wants to test me all the time. Comes back to really solid basic commands so you have tools to work around undesirable behaviours, I use a "kissy sound" as a stop for him and drummed it into him hard from day one as a pup, if I do it once he will stop, do it again and he will sit. I've just found lately he's tried to push the limits a bit with how far out he can get but putting the stop on him keeps the brakes on
Mate had a yard which the burglars kicked his dog 1 night. He unloaded a 12g loaded with salt at the kuri kickers. Word got around. No more troubles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin358
