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Hi Team,
I've just adopted a 2 year old GSP that I'd like to try and training for hunting. I've got a few questions:
1) Does anyone have experience with training a dog around this age and have any tips\ recommendations for things that are unique to training a slightly older dog?
2) Opinions on using the Deer Dog blue print?
3) Are there any alternatives to the Deer Dog Blue Print? I'm based in Auckland and thought about looking up a gun dog training club to see what they offer.
Cheers
I used the Blueprint for vizsla/gsp cross, from 8 week pup. I had no experience training hunting dogs, just general dog training and newer to hunting. It is strict in pure form. It was a little stressful (a lot) when trying to apply a strict programme while being a family pet also. The programme worked for us. He's a machine on deer, and I'm a better hunter now because of the "teamwork" aspect it fosters. If I was doing it again, I'd use the principles and outline, but introduce the dog to hunting earlier than 1 year if ready, and I would be a lot more relaxed around my family.
My view.....make sure you are a good hunter without a dog first......make sure you have good basic sit/hold/stop (one word for all....sit is sit and is stay and hold and stop if that makes sense) good heel and a good let go and hunt.....learn to read dog signals....theh are all different...they don't all do the stiff tail and hold.uo front foot thing.
If you have these sorted then go for a hunt....use a long line if you like....as long as your dog knows to keep looking for you they should then hunt with you....if younhave you heel or stop sorted then this should flow through....
Be prepared to loose deer until you both click
Have a look at Trap and Trigger Ltd on YouTube and the clip called Deer Dog handling and breakdown....
Wouldn't waste you money on blueprint....I didn't....sure my dogs not perfect but we get our fair share
Hamish
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The blueprint cost about the same as 2 bags of dog food. Why wouldn't you? so much great info in that program. If you follow it strictly there is a very high chance your dog will be an absolute weapon on deer (providing your dog isn't already gunshy and hasn't already developed a bad chasing animals habit). The BP is a year-long, step-by-step program and requires a decent level of commitment, 20 minutes a day distraction-free to train the dog. Even if you don't follow it right through you will learn stuff that will make you a better dog handler so worth the money for that alone I reckon.
My dog is Vizsla/gsp bitch, 2years old. We've been using the BP for about a year now and she is coming along great! I can just see how good she will be with more training, maturity, and experience.
I don't really know about alternatives. I've seen other people just take their dogs hunting and let them make mistake after mistake and the dog turns out shambles and then doesn't get to come hunting anymore. I've seen others hunt their dogs in a heel and keep it relatively tidy like that. That would be a lot less work than training the BP but you wouldn't be getting the most out of your dog IMO. Depends on how much effort you are prepared to put in I guess.
I bought into the blueprint as I knew a fair bit about dogs but not deer dogs. I found it useful in quite a few ways. I have had a couple of dogs given to me at around that age over the years and the issue for you initially is to get the 2 year old to bond closely with you, and that may take some time, depending on the dog and how much time you can devote to creating that bond. Don't rush into the hunting side of things until you are sure that the dog will work with/for you. My experience of german dogs (2 rotties and 1 gwp) is that they are quite strong willed and you have to use that to your advantage not be fighting against it all the time. The bond is key.
GSP..... yip had a few crosses now..... the whine will be your single biggest issue,if you havent got it now DONT LET IT START.... if wife says "its only taking" make it shut up... wife or dog in equal measures..trust me on this one,it will absolutely drive you nuts if you dont.
if those 2 years have allowed dog to settle somewhat..great.the few basic commands should be installed by now...get them down rock solid. then do whatever you want.... bottom line is this. we all want a superdooper venison finding hunting machine BUT only 1% of people wil lactually put in the time and effort to achieve that and of that 1% only maybe 50% will do enough hunting to keep it honed.
a dog who will walk at heel,SHUT UP, stay at heel untill till do otherwise is a great companion in the hills and boonies .IF they help you find dead deer,they have earned thier tucker and deserve to keep going out with you,if they help you find LIVE animals its a bonus.
another way to look at it...use this dog as drawing board....the next 5-8 years YOU will learn more about what you do and dont want to do and need,use that knowledge to good effect next time around,sort of get all your mistakes out of the way with this one.not saying it cant be great,but be realistic.your starting from scratch yourself,its all new.
again..get ontop of the whine...and buy a coat for the shivers. good luck.
2 Years isn't even old. I've inherited much older dogs and developed good relationshipsQuote:
Originally Posted by Quintin
Old dogs can definetly be taught new tricks. It all comes down to fundamentals, and the relationship and bond as others have said above.
Your mate should enjoy working with and for you. If you don't have that, you basically have a cat.
I haven't watched it all and I'm not sure I'd pay for it, an old friend did show me a few videos and I reckon he's harder on his dogs than needs be. But he sure gets venison.Quote:
2) Opinions on using the Deer Dog blue print?
I used the blueprint for the early stages of training.
As has been mentioned, with an older dog you want to develop a good bond between the 2 of you. Once you have the basic commands 100% you can move on to some more specialist training.
2 years is not old, but old enough to have developed some habits which may or may not need to be removed or modified
I got my gsp when he was 2 (roughly 18months ago now) and completly out of control. Had yarns with a couple of good buggers from here what to expect and how to start him on game and did alot of research. When i got him he was in the eyes of many a lost cause and the best thing for him was a bullet but after alot of work hes become a fantastic hunting companion. And he only whines a bit when hes cold. Patience is definately needed. Routine helped. Long lead used for teaching ranging and stop the old school way of standing on the lead when hes too far and also when the stop command is used. I used treats for recall for the first few months then weened him off and he still happily comes back without hesitation. Theres alot to learn.
Spoken like a true dog man!Quote:
Originally Posted by silentscope
We don't use dogs for any big game animal here, except for pigs some places; it's illegal in my state and most others in the USA to use them on deer. I wish we could.
I've trained a lot of bird dogs, however, and what you said is Classic hunting dog training...the way my dad taught me 68 years ago.
One thing I need to mention on this thread is the importance of starting to introduce a dog to guns. I've had adult dogs to start that were afraid of the snap of a dry-fire. With any dog start slow. I dry-fire when they are eating; I let them get good and hungry, then commence. I also use hand treats like chicken, cheese, meat, etc., things they are really hot for.
Work up to a 22 LR that's pointed away from the dog, until they ignore that. Carry the 22 rifle with you when working the dog and pop some rounds when they are several yards away. When they are fine with the 22 I then cut off shotgun shells and have just the base with the primer and repeat like I do with the 22. Hand treats at random times prevent the dog from thinking he needs treats after shots; it means we're having fun in general, which includes some popping and some goodies.
Graduate to a full load using the same pattern. This might sound like a lot of trouble, but it's a helluva lot easier than working backward with a gun shy dog.
I Enjoyed reading up on training coursing dogs here
banging pots or sheet of iron at feeding times is another good way to suggest loud noise isnt a bad thing.
jesus i must have been lucky 2 gsp.s 1 rottie/gsp all worked none whined.
oh except oncee when the ice cold water of lake ellesmere tho jacketed chilled reds jewels
he whined on the way out but was fine with a mouthful of mallard on the way back
.fine for the rest of the day to actually conspicuos by his quiet absence near me
preferring to hide on kotukus pack till called upon.
any of thier short comings were down to my impatience and keen,ness to not lose birds by training them to death.
be firm be cosistent be thorough be thier boss then mate after trainings done for the day
i found teaching retrieving made easier for gunshot training as they learned bang meant funtime
I have the Blue print and am a member of a Gun dog club.
If you can, do both.
Blue print has heaps of info that will be relevant even if you don't follow his system.
Gundog club will give you access to people who can read dogs.
They won't have much of a deer focus but will be good at helping with the basic obedience which forms 90% of what you need.
They also have access to cool stuff like remote throwers, remote live pigeon traps, live pigeons etc. All very useful in steading a dog up.
Getting a dog at 2 means you haven't had to put up with the puppy stage however you don't know if it has seen game yet or been allowed to chase stuff.
As others said it will come down to the amount and the quality of the time you are prepared to put in.
FWIW South Auckland gundog club is running an open day shortly. Well worth going along, take your dog.