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Thread: FREEDOM : - 1 of 6 Good Things

  1. #1
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    FREEDOM : - 1 of 6 Good Things

    When I say Good Things , I really mean Essential Things .

    Most will know straight away the first 4 things we ( Humans ) need to live/survive .
    Whats not so obvious is the other 2 things we need .

    1 - Air , 3 mins
    2 - Shelter , 3 hrs ( extreme weather )
    3 - Water , 3 days
    4 - Food , 3 weeks
    5 - Freedom
    6 - Security

    And I did not come up with these , the last 2 are needed just as much as the others for us Humans , thats according to Sociologist & Philosopher Zygmunt Bauman .

    Freedom is taken very much for granted these days in most 1st World Free Democratic Countries , we have not fought for it in over 80yrs .And have forgotten the cost of IT & how important it is .

    Just some thoughts I had today .

    Yours Chris
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    Remember the 7 Ps; Pryor Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

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    Member Max Headroom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2post View Post
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    Yes, the relational aspect.
    RIP Larry S. 19/02/19

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    I'v been doing find on 4.5 for a long time.

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    Maslow sussed this in the 1950's with his 5 levels of human needs.
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    World Peace.

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    Inner peace.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahr View Post
    Maslow sussed this in the 1950's with his 5 levels of human needs.
    You need to be inside the University echo chamber for Maslows hierarchy of needs not to sound utterly spastic. Nothing worse than the philosophy of people who never leave school and spend their lives in tiny offices.

    It ignores the fact that humans, like all mammals, exist in a variety of states, dependent on their environment. Humanism is pseudo-religious nonsense.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tussock View Post
    You need to be inside the University echo chamber for Maslows hierarchy of needs not to sound utterly spastic. Nothing worse than the philosophy of people who never leave school and spend their lives in tiny offices.

    It ignores the fact that humans, like all mammals, exist in a variety of states, dependent on their environment. Humanism is pseudo-religious nonsense.
    And yet his hierarchy reflects almost exactly the original categories and additions in this thread. No theory is perfect, but there is merit in attempting to understand how and why things work.

    Perhaps your mocking reflects where you sit on the table.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahr View Post
    And yet his hierarchy reflects almost exactly the original categories and additions in this thread. No theory is perfect, but there is merit in attempting to understand how and why things work.

    Perhaps your mocking reflects where you sit on the table.
    It reflects sitting at a table making a map at 2am at university surrounded by people who wanted their homework done for them. Psychology can not escape the reality that you are observing people inside a social system that is innately perverse.

    Maslow studied the cream of the intellectual crop, meaning he looked at the best fit examples of a perverse system. His hierarchy reflects this. Thus, echo chamber. First you assume the current system is flawless, therefore you only need look at its most successful individuals. These turn out to be the same people carrying out the study. As usual it is odd people looking in a mirror.

    In order to achieve the upper portions of the heirarchy, the lower portions must be met. This is total nonsense. What Maslow really said is that to succeed in academia first you need to be comfy, which is true. He assumes that reaching pinnacle accolades in a very unusual society is a reflection of human nature, rather than the nature of the unusual society and the people it advances.

    Older philosophy would put greater emphasis on deprivation as a path to higher level needs. My steer for example, is much smarter than regular cattle, possibly because he spent the first four days of his life alone without food.

    The problem with the theory is the word "hierarchy". Maslow existed within a hierarchical society. I don't. If you were to look at the same theory from the perspective of animism rather than humanism, then you would note hierarchy is a characteristic of lower order creatures. Chickens are hierarchical. Higher order mammals are not innately hierarchical, but become so when their social structure fails.
    Last edited by Tussock; 17-03-2019 at 07:33 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Your critique (which appears to be lifted from Wiki ) is not invalid, but neither is the original theory. For example, is not your presence here in part driven by your desperate (my observation) need for affiliation? As I say to the people I teach and train (yes, I live in one of your vacuums), the theoretical underpinnings inform us of why things work which makes us better at the actual doing.

    After a minutes silence of respect this morning I will briefly talk about Maslow to students and how the theory inform the interests matrix, and it will add a little part to the jigsaw that will assist them in being more reflective and better peace builders. Don't knock it.

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    Shut up, get out & start pushing!

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    Ah Freedom and Security, those two mentioned together are a conflict. One impinges on the other, but both are needed in society.
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    Boom, cough,cough,cough

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    Good quality toilet paper

  15. #15
    Member Tussock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahr View Post
    Your critique (which appears to be lifted from Wiki ) is not invalid, but neither is the original theory. For example, is not your presence here in part driven by your desperate (my observation) need for affiliation? As I say to the people I teach and train (yes, I live in one of your vacuums), the theoretical underpinnings inform us of why things work which makes us better at the actual doing.

    After a minutes silence of respect this morning I will briefly talk about Maslow to students and how the theory inform the interests matrix, and it will add a little part to the jigsaw that will assist them in being more reflective and better peace builders. Don't knock it.
    You can't explain why I have turned down dozens of affiliations and why I have none of any kind? This is a place where you can engage with people without any affiliation. When you accuse someone of lifting something from Wiki (a low tier argument) it is customary to point out where I copied it?

    "the theoretical underpinnings inform us of why things work which makes us better at the actual doing" Yet your observation of me was wrong. I am unique in my rejection of affiliation. Outside of your echo chamber your capacity for analysis fails you.

    After your minutes silence, will you acknowledge to your students that Maslows research was in the 50s. The anti-war movement did not make it to the 80s. In 2019 nuclear arms treaties are being scrapped and governments are building AI driven autonomous killing machines. Your moment of silence is for an act previously unimaginable in New Zealand.

    In other words, as peace builders, your echo chamber has been an abject failure.

    Another aspect of hierarchy is that as your status rises in the hierarchy, peoples willingness and ability to question you diminishes. You become in the habit of speaking in a way that shows you are not used to being questioned (my observation of you). Without questioning, people are more able to say things that are not well thought out, and people are more inclined to believe them. Fear of a fall in the hierarchy also stops people from deviating from the accepted narrative.
    Carlsen Highway likes this.

 

 

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