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Thread: Kali-Key and converting semi auto to bolt action

  1. #1
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    Kali-Key and converting semi auto to bolt action

    Just preempt the discussion by saying I do not own an ar15 or any other semi automatic rifle, although I am looking at getting a 10/22 if anyone has one floating around...but I can see quite a few options on google for turning a MSSA into a bolt action and was wondering if anyone has tried this or considered the legal ramifications of doing it.

    Seems the legislation is banning certain rifle parts but have not defined them in exacting detail, so if someone changed their semi automatic into a bolt action gun then would that make it legal?

    Any thoughts on this, I assume I have missed something here, just curious out of a discussion with a work mate who is a conspiracy theorist nut.

  2. #2
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    No you cant convert a semi to a bolt action / single shot and have it be legal.
    Every part of a semi-auto is prohibited.
    If the parts can be put towards assembling a prohibited firearm then its a no go. So for example an upper, lower, trigger group, bolt carrier/group etc can all be used to towards assembling a prohibited firearm.

    definition of a part below:

    part—
    (a)
    in relation to a pistol or a restricted weapon, includes any thing, such as a butt, stock, magazine, silencer, or sight, that, although not essential for the discharge by a pistol or a restricted weapon of any shot, bullet, missile, or other projectile, is designed, or intended to be, an integral part of the pistol or restricted weapon; and
    (b)
    in relation to a prohibited firearm, includes any thing, such as a butt, stock, magazine (other than a prohibited magazine), silencer, or sight, that although not essential for the discharge by the prohibited firearm of any shot, bullet, missile, or other projectile, is designed, or intended to be, an integral part of the prohibited firearm; and

    (c)
    in relation to any other firearm, means the action for that firearm and for any firearm that has upper and lower receivers, includes the upper receiver and lower receiver, whether together or individually; and
    (d)
    in relation to any firearm, includes any thing, such as bolt carrier group parts, trigger group parts, lower parts kits, barrel, gas block, gas tube, folding or telescoping stock, magazine loader, sub-calibre conversion kits, and carbine stock

    Then the definition of a prohibited part is:

    In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires, prohibited part means—
    (a)
    a part of a prohibited firearm:
    (b)
    a component that can be applied to enable, or take significant steps towards enabling, a firearm to be fired with, or near to, a semi-automatic or automatic action.

    So if any of the items specified in the definition of a "part", are a "part" of a prohibited firearm - ie part of a semi auto, then those parts are individually banned.
    Last edited by ChrisW; 12-04-2019 at 05:09 PM.
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  3. #3
    Member Cordite's Avatar
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    Make the parts part of a non-prohibited firearm (aka bolt action) and they are all fine.
    Except the >10 mag.
    Kali key or whatever is however not a convincing conversion on its own, you'd need to plug and cut the gas port too, that is, make it irreversible.
    A straight pull AR15 is shit though, unless it was a gift from my dad I'd opt for compensation money and buy a decent bolt action.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW View Post
    No you cant convert a semi to a bolt action / single shot and have it be legal.
    Every part of a semi-auto is prohibited.
    If the parts can be put towards assembling a prohibited firearm then its a no go. So for example an upper, lower, trigger group, bolt carrier/group etc can all be used to towards assembling a prohibited firearm.

    definition of a part below:

    part—
    (a)
    in relation to a pistol or a restricted weapon, includes any thing, such as a butt, stock, magazine, silencer, or sight, that, although not essential for the discharge by a pistol or a restricted weapon of any shot, bullet, missile, or other projectile, is designed, or intended to be, an integral part of the pistol or restricted weapon; and
    (b)
    in relation to a prohibited firearm, includes any thing, such as a butt, stock, magazine (other than a prohibited magazine), silencer, or sight, that although not essential for the discharge by the prohibited firearm of any shot, bullet, missile, or other projectile, is designed, or intended to be, an integral part of the prohibited firearm; and

    (c)
    in relation to any other firearm, means the action for that firearm and for any firearm that has upper and lower receivers, includes the upper receiver and lower receiver, whether together or individually; and
    (d)
    in relation to any firearm, includes any thing, such as bolt carrier group parts, trigger group parts, lower parts kits, barrel, gas block, gas tube, folding or telescoping stock, magazine loader, sub-calibre conversion kits, and carbine stock

    Then the definition of a prohibited part is:

    In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires, prohibited part means—
    (a)
    a part of a prohibited firearm:
    (b)
    a component that can be applied to enable, or take significant steps towards enabling, a firearm to be fired with, or near to, a semi-automatic or automatic action.

    So if any of the items specified in the definition of a "part", are a "part" of a prohibited firearm - ie part of a semi auto, then those parts are individually banned.
    So what about firearms with tube mags greater than 10 rounds (5 rounds for shotguns) they are now prohibited firearms due to their capacity rather than semi auto status, along with all their parts. Can they be modified (shorten the tube, ect) and if so, why can semis not be modified to be legal?

    Im not having a go, just trying to prompt some discussion around the issue.

  5. #5
    Member Daggers_187's Avatar
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    What about an AR-15 lower with no magazine well?
    Isn't semi automatic. Cannot accept a magazine. Therefore it's not a prohibited firearm?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daggers_187 View Post
    What about an AR-15 lower with no magazine well?
    Isn't semi automatic. Cannot accept a magazine. Therefore it's not a prohibited firearm?
    So the next question is where do you draw the line for what parts of a semi-automatic can be re-used on a legal firearm?

    Is an AR-15 pistol grip ok on a bolt action?

    What about an AR buttstock?

    Ar-15 bolt head in a custom carrier with no gas key?

    AR-15 trigger in a straight pull rifle unrelated to AR-15s?

    Would the trigger have to be modified to be unusable in a semi?

    A lower that has been modified to be incompatible with standard uppers and would only work with a custom bolt action upper?

    An AR-15 barrel with its gas port welded closed?
    Deetleaves likes this.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordite View Post
    Make the parts part of a non-prohibited firearm (aka bolt action) and they are all fine.
    Except the >10 mag.
    Kali key or whatever is however not a convincing conversion on its own, you'd need to plug and cut the gas port too, that is, make it irreversible.
    A straight pull AR15 is shit though, unless it was a gift from my dad I'd opt for compensation money and buy a decent bolt action.
    The provision saying a prohibited part is "a part of a prohibited firearm" is not stating that the part needs to be installed on a prohibited firearm in order for it to be a part of a prohibited firearm. The police can interpret it whichever way they want depending on the context.
    Of course being law its open to interpretation- you could potentially have an argument till it was tested in court, at which time they will install said part on an AR or similar rifle and show the court that its part of a prohibited firearm.
    I think they would choose to interpret stocks etc installed on a bolt action as not a part of a prohibited firearm due to the context and the fact that a stock/grip/hand guard will not go far and are not really vital to the assembly of a prohibited firearm.

    I think a lower, an upper, a BCG etc they would certainly choose to interpret it as a part of a prohibited firearm, as an upper, lower, BCG etc can all go a long way towards assembling a functional prohibited firearm.

    If it was so easy then everyone would just be blocking up their gas holes right about now and calling it good. Arguing that no part of it is a prohibited part as they are installed on a straight-pull, and not a prohibited firearm.. That imo will be a very easy test case for the police to win if anyone really wanted clarification..

    No court, especially in this political climate is going to side with a firearms owner when the police slap an AR upper and a huge mag onto a lower taken from a "straight pull" AR and argue that its part of a prohibited firearm.
    dogmatix likes this.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daggers_187 View Post
    What about an AR-15 lower with no magazine well?
    Isn't semi automatic. Cannot accept a magazine. Therefore it's not a prohibited firearm?
    Personally I think it would need to be such that you cant go an install an AR upper onto it, thus it cannot reasonably be used to assemble a prohibited (semi auto) firearm. ie move the take down pins, shift/alter the trigger slightly etc.

  9. #9
    RRA
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    a guy at Rotorua has got his gunsmith converted his AR to stright pull bolt action, the gas system was removed, gas port on barrel was sealed, heck he even cut the gas key on BCG. guess what? his rifle was still taken by the police yesterday. because the stright pull AR is still "take significant steps towards enabling, a firearm to be fired with, or near to, a semi-automatic or automatic action". you simply cannot argue with the police how near is near enough. this is a dead end, guys, no way to get around this time.
    ebf and ChrisW like this.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RRA View Post
    a guy at Rotorua has got his gunsmith converted his AR to stright pull bolt action, the gas system was removed, gas port on barrel was sealed, heck he even cut the gas key on BCG. guess what? his rifle was still taken by the police yesterday. because the stright pull AR is still "take significant steps towards enabling, a firearm to be fired with, or near to, a semi-automatic or automatic action". you simply cannot argue with the police how near is near enough. this is a dead end, guys, no way to get around this time.
    Is the guy in Rotorua in touch with a firearms lawyer? Good test case. Police will interpret things predictably "on the safe side", but that does not mean the actual law is on their side.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordite View Post
    Is the guy in Rotorua in touch with a firearms lawyer? Good test case. Police will interpret things predictably "on the safe side", but that does not mean the actual law is on their side.
    he did, but the odds are against him, because he has lost the evidence, the police has taken the rifle, good luck to ever find it again. also it is not worth to pursuit the case any further financial wise for just a single rifle. if you can receive justice really depends on if you afford it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SixtyTen View Post
    So what about firearms with tube mags greater than 10 rounds (5 rounds for shotguns) they are now prohibited firearms due to their capacity rather than semi auto status, along with all their parts. Can they be modified (shorten the tube, ect) and if so, why can semis not be modified to be legal?

    Im not having a go, just trying to prompt some discussion around the issue.
    The .22 itself is not a prohibited firearm, but unfortunately it has a prohibited magazine permanently attached. Given the context it would be reasonable to allow it to be converted, you could remove the tube mag and attach a shorter tube mag (modified original one?) and once its legal its legal I guess.

    The semi parts one is much simpler - if we use an AR as an example, imo, to be clear of the wording of the law you would need to modify every single part of it not to be compatible with an AR.
    Basically you need to think -Can they take that firing pin, bolt, extractor, mag catch, mag release, upper, lower, bolt key; literally - any part of it and and fit it straight in an AR? If the answer is yes to any little part then they can easily win their case if they wanted to.

    The stocks, imo are a lesser issue as they do not really contribute to the ability to assemble a semi-auto. Mechanical parts are what they are aiming for.
    The only potential issue with stocks / grips etc that I can see is if they were being particularly difficult they could probably argue that the buffer tube is a part of a prohibited firearm and contributes significantly to the ability to assemble a working semi -auto. In which case if you want to be safe with your bolt action you could cut the back off the buffer tube so its unable to contain a spring / buffer.

  13. #13
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    @DPT

    See Chrisw’s comments above.
    Welcome to Sako club.

  14. #14
    Member Beavis's Avatar
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    Also the grips and stocks/end plates hold the springs and detents in place that stop the lower from falling apart and allows the safety to function
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    What happens in the context of a part that was never built to go onto a semi auto, was shipped into NZ and purchased legitimately as part of a non-semi-auto firearm, whose owner has no idea it was ever able to fit a semi-auto but that same part fits the description of a banned part cause it could fit a semi auto etc etc? Bit bloody stupid that. Take years to sort all that out and the average person in blue would have no clue not being a subject matter expert in firearms. Would have been a little useful to take a second or two longer and make the legislation useful rather than creating jobs for life...
    gadgetman likes this.

 

 

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