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Thread: Are pistols included in any of this?

  1. #1
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    Are pistols included in any of this?

    Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but aren't pistols included under the definition given for new MSSAs: 'Semi-auto firearm... detachable magazine... non rim-fire... more than 5 cartridges?'

    Shouldn't they be specifically excluded in the text? Or if the Govt thinks B-Cat is regulated well-enough, than why not retain current E-Cat and tighten up access to the bloody magazines; as that seems to be the extent of the 'hole' in the law. Banning the guns "that were used in the attacks" is about as knee-jerk a reaction as I can imagine. It's banning case-by-case, not a holistic and balanced legislation that it might be.
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  2. #2
    Member Max Headroom's Avatar
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    As far as I know (which in the current environment isn't very far) the pollies and plods aren't after pistols. They know who have them.

    It's the AR 15's and others etc that they want out of A cat hands.
    RIP Larry S. 19/02/19

  3. #3
    Member dogmatix's Avatar
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    Pistol NZ has advised pistols are not impacted by the orders in council.
    However we donít know what the proposed legislation will say.
    We will find out from 2pm Monday.
    Welcome to Sako club.

  4. #4
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    No hurry to take the legally held pistols just yet.

    They know where they are and can collect them any time they want.

  5. #5
    Member marky123's Avatar
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    Stuart Nash is remaining tight lipped.I have been asking him on facebook

  6. #6
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    E-Cat wording specifically says that it excludes pistols. Please don’t give them any ideas.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Headroom View Post
    As far as I know (which in the current environment isn't very far) the pollies and plods aren't after pistols. They know who have them.

    It's the AR 15's and others etc that they want out of A cat hands.
    Sure, but that highlights the irrationality of the whole approach of Govt; they so-far accept that *potentially* dangerous firearms can be owned and used by NZs, just not the ones in the photos of the shooter? What is the material difference between B and E-Cat arsenals in a mass shooting scenario? Obviously I don't want to throw B-Catters under the bus, and I'm sure I'm preaching to the converted, but I think that reasoning with Govt that if B is like E, and B is OK, then let's just make E more like B. Hope you can follow my math.

    Undermines the AR-for-hunting argument possibly, if limited to shooting at ranges, but certainly a better fallback position than loosing them altogether.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdeee View Post
    E-Cat wording specifically says that it excludes pistols. Please don’t give them any ideas.
    Right, that must be it. Ta.

    I just believe that when enough inconsistencies and loopholes are exposed in a piece of logic, it should collapse. Against all odds, the OIC is still holding together however...

  9. #9
    Terminator Products Kiwi Greg's Avatar
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    Anything is possible & nothing is off the table.....time will tell....

  10. #10
    Member Max Headroom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dain View Post
    Sure, but that highlights the irrationality of the whole approach of Govt; they so-far accept that *potentially* dangerous firearms can be owned and used by NZs, just not the ones in the photos of the shooter? What is the material difference between B and E-Cat arsenals in a mass shooting scenario? Obviously I don't want to throw B-Catters under the bus, and I'm sure I'm preaching to the converted, but I think that reasoning with Govt that if B is like E, and B is OK, then let's just make E more like B. Hope you can follow my math.

    Undermines the AR-for-hunting argument possibly, if limited to shooting at ranges, but certainly a better fallback position than loosing them altogether.
    Here's the current rationale that the government is working to, as far as I can see.

    GUNS ARE BAD.

    The end.
    outlander likes this.
    RIP Larry S. 19/02/19

  11. #11
    Member Beavis's Avatar
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    As Dogmatix said, we will find out Monday/Tuesday. I too would consider it comical to leave B and C and annihilate E, hopefully at the very least any remaining E's will be available under the same or similar condition as B. It would make sense, but this is more about looking cool to your mates in other govts than making sense. Fingers crossed.

  12. #12
    Semper excretia Ryan's Avatar
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    Hope for the best, expect the worst.
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  13. #13
    ebf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis View Post
    As Dogmatix said, we will find out Monday/Tuesday. I too would consider it comical to leave B and C and annihilate E, hopefully at the very least any remaining E's will be available under the same or similar condition as B. It would make sense, but this is more about looking cool to your mates in other govts than making sense. Fingers crossed.
    @Beavis I fully expect several parts of the new changes to be "comical"

    One of the rocket scientists in the beehive apparently wanted to know why they couldn't just put serial numbers on ammunition...

    There are some positive signs that common sense advice is being provided behind the scenes, but who knows if they will take any notice.
    gadgetman likes this.
    Viva la Howa ! R.I.P. Toby

  14. #14
    Member Cordite's Avatar
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    Pistol cannot be an "MSSA". After all, an "MSSA" is not allowed to be a pistol (just look at the squabbles over measuring MSSAs with stocks folded).
    Join COLFO - Be a represented firearms owner.

  15. #15
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    The Order in Council was made under section 74a of the Arms Act, which specifically excludes pistols.
    74AOrders relating to military style semi-automatic firearms

    The Governor-General may by Order in Council do any or all of the following things:

    (a) describe a kind of component as a pistol grip for the purposes of the definition in*section 2*of military style semi-automatic firearm:

    (b) declare semi-automatic firearms (other than pistols) of a stated make and model to be military style semi-automatic firearms for the purposes of this Act:

    (c) declare semi-automatic firearms (other than pistols) of a stated description to be military style semi-automatic firearms for the purposes of this Act:

    (d) define or describe features of a semi-automatic firearm (other than a pistol) as features of a military style semi-automatic firearm for the purposes of this Act.


    What comes out in the coming law changes, who knows, they could do anything so its wait and see.

 

 

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