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Thread: Police firearm changes FAQ update

  1. #1
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    Police firearm changes FAQ update

    AO told me to watch the police website update as they were waiting for clarifications as well.

    I've seen a few posts mentioning the flow chart has now gone, but didn't recall anyone mentioning the FAQ update.

    https://www.police.govt.nz/advice/fi...s-changes-faqs

    Here are a few noteable updates:

    Why is there a transition period for the Order in Council? Why canít you just ban these guns?
    From the day this Order in Council took effect, 21 March 2019, some A category firearms are now classified as MSSAs.
    However, substantive amendments to the Arms Act 1983 are need to be made for MSSAs to be banned. So from today we are in a transition period while that work takes place.
    In order to avoid being prosecuted for being in possession of a MSSA you must be able to prove you have taken steps to hand in your now-unlawful firearm. The easiest way to do that is by filling in the online form.

    How long is the amnesty going to run for?
    At this stage it is until further notice. Once the legislation has been changed we will have more clarity around the period of amnesty for firearm owners.
    Police encourages any person now in unlawful possession of a firearm, which is now classified as a MSSA, to notify Police to arrange to hand over the firearm into Police custody. The transitional period allows for people who do so to avoid facing any penalty for unlawful possession.

    What if I already have an E endorsement and an affected A category firearm?
    The Government has indicated that more information about these will be made by 11 April 2019. MSSAs, whether they have always been categorised as an MSSA or recently re-categorised, will become unlawful and be subject to a buyback and will have to be handed in or application made to have a newly categorised MSSA endorsed on their E endorsed licence and hold according to the MSSA storage solutions.

    Would these laws have stopped the incident at Christchurch from happening?
    These changes will mean that no one is able to legally purchase a semi-automatic firearm and then convert it into an MSSA by purchasing unregulated large capacity magazines.
    The firearms, and parts used to convert the firearms into MSSAs, in the Christchurch terror attack will be banned, pending changes to the Arms Act.
    Last edited by hauraki; 27-03-2019 at 01:17 AM.

  2. #2
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    "Would these laws have stopped the incident at Christchurch from happening?
    These changes will mean that no one is able to legally purchase a semi-automatic firearm and then convert it into an MSSA by purchasing unregulated large capacity magazines.
    The firearms, and parts used to convert the firearms into MSSAs, in the Christchurch terror attack will be banned, pending changes to the Arms Act."

    What a wonderful way to say NO.

  3. #3
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    "While we are focusing on the firearms that are newly classified as a MSSA, we will also accept any type of firearm that someone would like to hand in. Any firearms other than a newly defined MSSA or an MSSA that are handed in will not be eligible for compensation"
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  4. #4
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    "In order to avoid being prosecuted for being in possession of a MSSA you must be able to prove you have taken steps to hand in your now-unlawful firearm"

    "How long is the amnesty going to run for?
    At this stage it is until further notice. Once the legislation has been changed we will have more clarity around the period of amnesty for firearm owners."

    Righto. So what is it chaps?

  5. #5
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    It's good to see police is trying to address some pressing questions, but frankly it's still not getting any clearer until the arms act amendment gets passed. Police is coping the best they can with an amateur bunch of ministers.

    So for now, MSSA definition is not settled, buy back on MSSA is not guaranteed ("PM said…") nor fair, non-MSSA doesn't get a cent, amnesty runs until further notice, that's not very encouraging for hand back is it.
    Last edited by hauraki; 27-03-2019 at 02:21 AM.
    Steve123 likes this.

  6. #6
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    What is an MSSA?
    A military-style semi-automatic (MSSA) is defined in the Arms Act 1983 (section 2), as a semi-automatic (not pistols) that have one or more features - for example, pistol grip or has a magazine that is detachable, and by its appearance indicates that it is capable of holding more than 10 cartridges. They have a high rate of fire and ability to quickly change magazines and keep firing. Colloquially they are referred to as an assault rifle.

    On Thursday 21 March, changes by an Order in Council, under section 74A(c) of the Arms Act, came into force adding two more groups of semi-automatics under the MSSA definition:

    a semi-automatic firearm that is capable of being used in combination with a detachable magazine (other than one designed to hold 0.22-inch or less rimfire cartridges) that is capable of holding more than 5 cartridges; and
    a semi-automatic firearm that is a shotgun and is capable of being used in combination with a detachable magazine that is capable of holding more than 5 cartridges.
    This means a number of firearms which are owned by firearms licence holders are now held unlawfully if the person does not hold an E endorsed firearms licence.

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    Do you know everyone who currently holds these kinds of weapons?
    We hold details of all individuals with an A category firearms licence. We do not hold information on their weapons which may now be reclassified as a MSSA. Police will be seeking information from dealers of sales of these weapons.



    Will you be requesting gun, and part sale, records from all gun sellers?
    Under section 12 of the Arms Act 1983 Police may require some records from firearms dealers to help assess the number of banned firearms in the country.

    There is an existing requirement under the Arms Act for dealers to hold their records for five years.

  8. #8
    Member northdude's Avatar
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    Ok so if youve bought one of these type of firearms through a licensed dealer you can expect a visit at some stage dont panic they wont be breaking doors down and killing people just be polite and answer the questions even if you bought one many people like myself would of given one a go and decided its not for them and sold it
    tetawa likes this.

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    They will be "trawling'' thru T/M sales.

  10. #10
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    All of this takes an incredibly long time and extensive man hours. They do have the data to trace each rifle from its point of sale to final owner. What they do not have is the staffing or budget to do it.

    What this means is all our ordinary transactions from parts to rifles will now be bogged down in red tape semi permanently. They can spend major dollars on administration from their budget (hospitals are barely functioning) or charge a kings ransom for licensing. Both have problems. The other option is let the entire system run like a sack of arse, which will likely happen in both cases.
    There may be a third option, which is coercion, as in scaring people into compliance. This is inline with their current decision making style.

    This is Kiwibuild 2.0

    Jacinda Macron is the last young liberal darling not to be humiliated. This may be her time to shine.
    Friwi and chainsaw like this.

  11. #11
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    What if I already have an E endorsement and an affected A category firearm?
    The Government has indicated that more information about these will be made by 11 April 2019. MSSAs, whether they have always been categorised as an MSSA or recently re-categorised, will become unlawful and be subject to a buyback and will have to be handed in or application made to have a newly categorised MSSA endorsed on their E endorsed licence and hold according to the MSSA storage solutions.


    The two clauses appear to be contradictory. All MSSA will be illegal, or else endorsed on E cat and kept in E cat storage.

    Or is it saying that by April 11 the decision will be made whether all MSSA will be illegal and subject to buyback, or if they can be transferred to E and stored as existing law?

    Or (more likely) no has the faintest clue what is going on?

  12. #12
    By Popular Demand gimp's Avatar
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    I'm concerned about the idea of police trying to run a backwards registry with dubious and partial data from gun stores.

    Transcription and data entry errors are a real thing; the police will be chasing serial numbers and firearms that don't exist or are recorded against the wrong person.

    I'm also concerned about the fact that while gun stores may have kept records of initial sale of new or used firearms through their stores, individuals have never been legally required to do so. In the event that you have purchased a rifle from a store, then on-sold it (legally) by whatever means, you may have no record of to whom you sold it, and although you've committed no crime you may be treated shabbily under suspicion of not handing it over.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimp View Post
    I'm concerned about the idea of police trying to run a backwards registry with dubious and partial data from gun stores.

    Transcription and data entry errors are a real thing; the police will be chasing serial numbers and firearms that don't exist or are recorded against the wrong person.

    I'm also concerned about the fact that while gun stores may have kept records of initial sale of new or used firearms through their stores, individuals have never been legally required to do so. In the event that you have purchased a rifle from a store, then on-sold it (legally) by whatever means, you may have no record of to whom you sold it, and although you've committed no crime you may be treated shabbily under suspicion of not handing it over.
    They did something similar with fossils for GNS years ago. The data entry took about 5 years.

  14. #14
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    also all e cat type parts are going to be banned. So all pistol grips and adjustable stocks for chassis guns!!!

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    [QUOTE=hauraki;812094]It's good to see police is trying to address some pressing questions, but frankly it's still not getting any clearer until the arms act amendment gets passed. Police is coping the best they can with an amateur bunch of ministers.

    The Police are no better than the ministers they are the reason the MSSA Category is such a mess they invented the term and got it completely wrong,
    Leaving large capacity mags uncontrolled so anyone can buy one, They should have been only sold to E Cat license holders,
    The only thing that needs to change is that E Cat should have the same restriction as B Cat range use only if a large capacity mag is needed for pest control
    you need to be a registered pest control contractor and require a permit to procure,
    What the Government and Police are doing is setting up to ban all firearms in the near future if the present lot get in at the next election we are done,
    If I was paranoid I would be thinking the Authorities knew about the Christchurch terrorist and let it happen so they could start the gun grab
    it seemed like the PM was ready to ban semis without thinking about it which is odd for a politician to make a decision that fast.
    Cordite likes this.

 

 

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