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Thread: In the wake of ChCh - How we can help

  1. #1
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    In the wake of ChCh - How we can help

    I understand that there are already multiple threads on this event, but I thought that there would still be utility in a thread dedicated to suggestions/ activities for positive ways that we may help our country and our people recover from this tragedy. Please save any law-change/ political discussion for one of the other threads. Admins, feel free to delete/ move if you think this is inappropriate or should be elsewhere

    I thought long and hard about posting this, as I am naturally adverse to raising my head above the parapet. I am not seeking to start an argument or political future-gazing discussion, rather it is, literally a call to arms and to try and make us think a bit. This is a god awful tragedy. However it was an act committed by someone within OUR community, not just our civil community but the community of licensed firearms owners. This is a fact. Law changes, public perception, angry indignant speeches - these are all larger issues for the future which we will all face together. However in the new version of NZ where this has occurred, it behooves us to look to OUR community to do what we can to prevent this happening again. This, by no means, is solely our responsibility nor am I saying that this could have definitely been prevented by any one of us nor am I suggesting we all destroy/sell our guns.

    By all accounts, it appears that this particular individual grew and planned and twisted himself to the point where he was both mentally and physically able to conduct this atrocity. By and large, this appears to occurred in the dark, bizarre, parts of the Internet, where evil people and trolls are intermingled with some genuinely troubled individuals looking for meaning/ belonging (I am not a clinical psych, so I don't presume to know where this guy, and anyone potentially associated with him, would classify). This, thankfully, is not somewhere that the vast majority of us go or have any visibility of, however in order for him to physically do what he did, he has had to, at some point, interact with the real world, our world. This is where we come in.

    What I am saying is that this guy HAD to interact with us at some point, whether this was buying firearms privately or in a shop, interacting at the range or even in an online forum... What that means, now that this bell has been rung, and can't be unrung, is that we need to be more conscious, not suspicious, of the people we are interacting with and react appropriately. I am not talking about us establishing the thought police or our own network of stazi informers, I'm talking about us being a community.

    I do not know any more than any of you about the unfolding tragedy and I do not apportion blame upon anyone other than the perpetrator/s. I truly feel for those of us that may have previously interacted with him, in the lawful conduct of our sport and pastime, as you will no doubt be torturing yourself with the "what could i have done", "what did I miss", "what if" questions, as one poster has already noted.

    We are adults, responsible fit and proper people, with a pretty developed bullshit radar, capable of making good judgement calls and acting appropriately. Whether this is refusing to sell firearms to shitposting burner accounts looking for semi-autos and bulk ammo, through to calling out and/or reporting people doing and saying weird/unacceptable things at range shoots/ on social media. You know what wrong/suspicious looks like.

    Another thing that I believe we can, and should, self-police immediately is asking to sight/ get a copy of an E-cat I license if you are selling someone E-cat parts/ magazines. I am aware this isn't required by law, but why wouldn't we make it just that little bit harder to facilitate someone breaking the law and potentially making one more barrier to this happening again.

    These are the practical things we can, and I believe should, be doing. But more importantly than these, we need to look after and check up on our mates. At some point in this guy's life, he probably went from being a semi normal guy that was a bit weird, to starting down the road to become a person that was capable of doing what he did. Maybe if he had had someone check up on him and call him on his shit at that tipping point, it might have made a difference and he wouldn't have instead gravitated toward. This is more so, now than ever, in the wake of this event, which will have widespread and profound psychological impacts on country and on individuals, which will likely take years to fully understand. This is particularly exacerbated by his calculated, evil use of video footage and other literature, which is estimated to have been viewed by >100,000 Kiwis, many of whom are children or young teens. An event like this inevitably polarizes people, and we must make sure our mates and our hunting/ shooting community don't stray too far one way or the other.

    Beyond this, the most useful thing that we can do right now is something that has already been mentioned, give blood. Wherever you are in NZ, whatever type, if you can donate blood, please do. In the wake of this, the National Blood Service will be heavily depleted.

    Keen to hear any suggestions people might have for other ways we might be able to help out
    Tertle, Tikka7mm08, Rushy and 8 others like this.

  2. #2
    Member Blisters's Avatar
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    Can you do a brief summary of the above please? Not taking the piss or trolling, just dyslexia c
    Steve123 and 40mm like this.

  3. #3
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    Tangible; be neighbourly.
    Intangible; be observant.
    For the future; watch the politicisation and effects on yourself and our country and way of life.
    tetawa, Maca49 and Blisters like this.

  4. #4
    Member Max Headroom's Avatar
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    One thing I find myself doing now, is watching new members posts carefully.

    If you're new, please do not be offended by this. I don't mean to censor anybody, just to take careful note of what's being said.
    RIP Larry S. 19/02/19

  5. #5
    Member stingray's Avatar
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    Trust ...we all need to take a breath and stop ! Stop talking thinking blaming worrying ...and do what the people that were at the coal face who were shot at ,who have lost, who are now mourning! They TRUST NZ, they know...this is not us, who we are or what we stand for!

    Clever words don't come easily to me ..but here goes...those who were hurt the most still love and trust the rest of us ...firearm owners , police , politians...So as a whole let us (everyone) stop the point scoring, agenda pushing , scaremongering ..because this is exactly what this creature wants...a lack of trust ..leads to fear and rules and anger and separation and hate!

    Let the tears flow, let the hurt ache let the loss and pain ease! This is not a time of what about me / us ...we are good people enjoying and being amazing NZers! Trust each other , pull together rather than apart! If we do any less the creature wins !

    Hunt fish shoot share warmth ideas and trust and loyalty! This is who we are and how we were raised. Ignore the stirrers see them for what they are ...haters of our way of life , people with agendas and smart words...it doesn't make them any more right than you or me ...the poeple right now that have lost the most still trust us .

    Go well ! With out trust there is no relationship and then termoil!
    Nil durum volenti !!

  6. #6
    Member gadgetman's Avatar
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    Absolutely @stingray. This individual was not us.

    This has brought up a lot of the same results as the earthquakes. People joined together, it brought society closer together, I can see it happening here already.
    veitnamcam and stingray like this.
    There are only three types of people in this world. Those that can count, and those that can't!

  7. #7
    Member Maca49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Headroom View Post
    One thing I find myself doing now, is watching new members posts carefully.

    If you're new, please do not be offended by this. I don't mean to censor anybody, just to take careful note of what's being said.
    Shit you scared the shit out of us with your first post!!
    Max Headroom likes this.
    Boom, cough,cough,cough

  8. #8
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    Thanks Ubique and Stingray for such thoughtful posts.

    My thoughts . . . . its OK to be right into any aspect of the firearms scene, but don't think you "love" your firearms, love is for other humans (and a big maybe - pets).

    I don't say this to criticize anyone, society currently is programming us heavily to love all manner of "things" or "possessions" and it's not healthy.

    If you feel you "love" your guns then maybe you need more human contact(s) in your life - seek them out, even if its other gun oriented people and talk with them face to face (the online chat we indulge in is not "communication").

    Especially try and engage with those you see as "others" then you'll see that they are in fact "us". Other ethnicitys, other political persuasions, hell even vegans. Sympathetic warmth and good humour are a great healers.

  9. #9
    Member scotty's Avatar
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    In the wake of ChCh - How we can help......

    coupla really easy things to do.....

    give blood
    delete facebook accounts......they let this fuckface livestream this shit and get the publicity he wanted worldwide
    get in touch with Trademe and ask them to ban the selling of all this cheap arse tactical shit on there you know body armour ,helmets ,stuff that appeals to these weirdos....what sort of person feels the need to dress up like hes part of a swat team or navy seals ...
    then theres all the hard stuff we can do......
    change attitudes
    stay being a good cunt ....(which most on here are)

    "go easy ......step light......... stay free......" The Clash
    Tikka7mm08, stingray and nzfubz like this.

  10. #10
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    I can't give blood (on chemo for cancer), but I have donated some money to the Givealittle page. I like Woodys be neighborly idea, I would like to think I have already been doing that, but we can always do more. I'm not watching any video or reading any manifesto, that's what the murderer wants us to do, thats why he filmed it and wrote it, and I'm not doing what he wants!

  11. #11
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    @ubique thanks so much for starting this thread and thanks to all who have contributed to it. As a gun owner I've been feeling pretty bad the last few days. But this helps me remember that what really matters is that we are men and women, human beings. We can make choices. There are practical things we can do. We can contribute to the Givealittle page for the victims/survivors of this atrocity. We can attend the vigils which are being held, if we can get there, and in our day to day lives we can call out racism when we see it, and show love and fellowship to all New Zealanders regardless of their colour, religion or ethnicity. The more we commit to the ideals of inclusion and tolerance, the more we can show compassion, understanding, the more we negate the ideas this man has tried to propagate. He settled on New Zealand as a stage on which to act out his sick fantasies but as the Prime Minister said, he chose us, but we reject him.
    stingray likes this.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Headroom View Post
    One thing I find myself doing now, is watching new members posts carefully.

    If you're new, please do not be offended by this. I don't mean to censor anybody, just to take careful note of what's being said.
    Perfectly fine with this, been a member since 2012 and originally joined as was looking to get back into shooting/hunting as I hadn't been out since my time in the defense force. Moved to Australia in 2013 and have read the odd thread about deer hunting on here since then. I am a FAL holder in Australia and after the events on Friday reeducated myself on the current requirements for licensing in NZ. I have always talked with pride about the freedom we as responsible New Zealanders have the privilege to own Semi automatics and that a majority of the shooters I have met don't abuse that privilege. That while the current laws and licence system isnt perfect seems to be working for the most part and like everywhere bad people can still get firearms if they want them no matter what the law says.

    One of my uncles has had his FAL taken away and his firearms surrendered due to mental illness which the family reported due to concerns around his ability to be a fit and proper person. I have a few other people from my past that have done the wrong things with firearms or planned to. (if anyone wants to chat more on this I am happy to via PM however I do not feel it appropriate to post at this time) and thankfully multiple people didn't get hurt because of it

    I am probably preaching to the sermon here but no matter how hard it is more education and going the extra mile to make sure people are being safe is paramount to making sure things like this never happen again. I think the OP is on the money and I am also adverse to speaking about things like this but I can't stay silent.

    We can all get complacent and sometimes need a reminder. It might just be a causal hey what are you planning on doing with 30round magazines etc, I know personally anytime I buy something for my rifle I go into detail about it

    I currently have a Tikka t3x in 30-06 with a leopold scope that has had maybe 20rounds through it and I haven't managed to get any deer with it yet, I have a 3 round mag and that's it because if I can't get a deer with 2 rounds I shouldn't be shooting (personal view as I take pride in how accurate I am) but I am not a professional culler, and even though I am doing the right thing and am fully endorsed etc I still fear that if a member of the public comes across me firing multiple rounds off in a public forest the response will not be favorable.

    I also have a savage .22lr with a 10round mag which I use for bunnies/hares and at the range with my Girlfriend, its gotten two hares in the last 2months. I used two rounds, both my rifles are bolt action and they do the job.

    Would I like a semi automatic, yes do I need one probably not. If I was out shooting a brick of .22LR rounds every weekend at bunnies doing pest control then a semi auto would be nice to have.

    Australia hasn't fully banned Semi automatics, but its a lot harder to get them.
    Both my rifles are registered to me, and my friends rifle that is stored in my safe is registered to him. If the police come and inspect I have to have those rifles or paperwork to show they have been sold/destroyed etc

    The Australian system has a lot of flaws as well, but I like many other people in Australia follow them so that we can continue to own firearms.

    I hope everyone takes this post at face value, this is just a personal view from someone who isn't currently living in NZ and is strongly against peoples privileges being taken away because of a minority.

    I can see enforcement of any new laws being an issue and also cleaning the streets of all semi automatics without a register being challenging.

    Happy to discuss further and willing to listen to others views

    I am really proud of how people are coming together, and just hope that any changes going forwards are well thought out

    Melbourne has had 2 car attacks and no one in Australia has called for a ban on cars
    gadgetman likes this.

  13. #13
    Member Max Headroom's Avatar
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    Shrike, welcome, head on over to the introduce yourself thread and give us an abbreviated version of this post there for everybody to see.

    Enjoy the forum.
    Sideshow likes this.
    RIP Larry S. 19/02/19

  14. #14
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    Welcome to the forum and thank you for your, long overdue by the looks of it, input
    There are only three types of people in this world. Those that can count, and those that can't!

  15. #15
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
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    thankyou Tentman for introducing the L word...hat can we do...in the words of John Lennon "love one another" there is another fella whos name also starts with J who said the same thing a couple of thousand years ago.
    forget the guilt,learn to love yourself,be kind to your friends n family and be tolerant of others beliefs
    if someone out there is doing or saying OTT stuff,do something about it.tell someone.

 

 

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