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Thread: Are we partly responsible for our fate?

  1. #1
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    Are we partly responsible for our fate?

    I'm not suggesting that we should fall on our collective sword here. However, the firearms community is paying a high price for the sloppy, irrelevant freestanding pistol grip legislation, that was partly responsible the proliferation of A-cat AR15's, along with other factors like cheaper AR's and accessibility of them via the internet, and the absence of regulation over high capacity magazines.

    Tighter controls on the platform (making it available only as an E-cat firearm) rather than on the accessories, would have prevented a lot of what we are now seeing. As a community, we need to be awake. In hindsight, could we as a community, have done more to demand changes by authorities because of what became a a free for all on MSSA's dressed up as A-cats? The lawmakers are ultimately responsible for allowing the situation to continue, partly due to the absence of a political catalyst to force the changes.

    We can't afford to find ourselves in this position again and need to become far more vigilant and proactive in reporting 'dumb shit' or at the very least, make sure that the 'dumb shit' never happens again, by actively policing adherence rules and standards within our community. Where we spot an issue, we need to get it sorted it or bring it to the attention of those who can sort it. I'm ranting about any issue that even has the possibility of painting shooters in a bad light,
    whether it is a dodgy individual or bad legislation. If we don't, and continue to turn a blind eye, we will pay the price again, and again, until all we are allowed to own is a rubber band, of less than 3mmx50mm calibre...

    I suggest that it is better to throw a few members of the firearms community to the wolves by reporting cases of flagrant disregard for rules, be they safety or ownership related. Banning or trespassing those with a disregard for the rule of law from clubs and ranges is one step, along with making this known to the authorities so that it is a matter of record, and keeping records, so that when this happens again we have a watertight ship that won't sink.

    Also, looking at the situation with A-cat AR15 'S,
    did we even stop to think if it was in our own best interest to have so many of them out there?

    This is emotive stuff boys and girls... I'd like your thoughts, but please try and keep it rational and objective.

  2. #2
    Member Steve123's Avatar
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    No

    Sent from my SM-G390Y using Tapatalk
    Dead is better and Maca49 like this.

  3. #3
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    Years ago there was a petition/submission I recalled was on the definition of "military patterned pistol grip". And I recall discussions to focus on magazines capacity rather than "patterns" or "styles"

    Well only if the politians would listen, or have enough common sense.
    Maca49 and Tussock like this.

  4. #4
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    The hunters who I have spoken to about MSSA's have expressed their unease about the ready availability of those guns. What if Tarrant had a bunch of ten extremist mates all equipped with AR's …quite possible before the law change. The problem with getting anything done in the past was that the cops haven't acted on firearms concerns bought to them so even when a problem has been raised nothing was done about it. Now even the smallest sniff of a firearms problem will have the AOS at the door.
    Last edited by Moa Hunter; 03-04-2019 at 04:58 PM.
    Maca49 likes this.
    'Bother' said Pooh, as he chambered another round ...

  5. #5
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    The firearms themselves were never the issue,nor the way they looked....the issue was that large mags were readily available for them over the counter to anyone,no questions asked.That should have never been the case.But this rather obvious flaw in the rules was never dealt with.

  6. #6
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    How big is the bus you suddenly want to throw us under? Once they have the semi autos they will be back for your shotgun , then your bolt action and so on.

    The argument that "I dont use a semi so it doesnt apply to me " will sound pretty weak when they take the rest of your firearms because you didnt stand together and be counted.
    veitnamcam, Happy, C.T. and 8 others like this.
    Cats have nine lives-which makes them ideal for experimentation...

  7. #7
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    @muzza I am not against anyone that finds themselves on the wrong side of the law since its change. I'm talking about the minority that flout the law, behave unsafely and bring law abiding owners into disrepute. 2 posts this week spoke of unsafe practices - glassing through a scope, and another one, shooting a goat mistakenly thinking it was a deer. That could have been 2 more dead hunters... Then there is a thread with photos of a rifle wielding poacher... That is what I want to, as you put it, throw under the bus.
    Moa Hunter and Blisters like this.

  8. #8
    Member dogmatix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bol Tackshin View Post
    I'm not suggesting that we should fall on our collective sword here. However, the firearms community is paying a high price for the sloppy, irrelevant freestanding pistol grip legislation, that was partly responsible the proliferation of A-cat AR15's, along with other factors like cheaper AR's and accessibility of them via the internet, and the absence of regulation over high capacity magazines.

    Tighter controls on the platform (making it available only as an E-cat firearm) rather than on the accessories, would have prevented a lot of what we are now seeing. As a community, we need to be awake. In hindsight, could we as a community, have done more to demand changes by authorities because of what became a a free for all on MSSA's dressed up as A-cats? The lawmakers are ultimately responsible for allowing the situation to continue, partly due to the absence of a political catalyst to force the changes.

    We can't afford to find ourselves in this position again and need to become far more vigilant and proactive in reporting 'dumb shit' or at the very least, make sure that the 'dumb shit' never happens again, by actively policing adherence rules and standards within our community. Where we spot an issue, we need to get it sorted it or bring it to the attention of those who can sort it. I'm ranting about any issue that even has the possibility of painting shooters in a bad light,
    whether it is a dodgy individual or bad legislation. If we don't, and continue to turn a blind eye, we will pay the price again, and again, until all we are allowed to own is a rubber band, of less than 3mmx50mm calibre...

    I suggest that it is better to throw a few members of the firearms community to the wolves by reporting cases of flagrant disregard for rules, be they safety or ownership related. Banning or trespassing those with a disregard for the rule of law from clubs and ranges is one step, along with making this known to the authorities so that it is a matter of record, and keeping records, so that when this happens again we have a watertight ship that won't sink.

    Also, looking at the situation with A-cat AR15 'S,
    did we even stop to think if it was in our own best interest to have so many of them out there?

    This is emotive stuff boys and girls... I'd like your thoughts, but please try and keep it rational and objective.
    As I commented on another thread, but is still relevant to your question.

    Maybe NZPHQ shouldn't have f**ked around in 2009 with the ultra vires policy in the thumbhole stock debacle that lead to what we have now?
    Maybe if Facebook had never existed, there wouldn't be such a vehicle for hate and misinformation that lead to the events of 2019?
    Maybe if a father in Grafton, Australia had pulled out 28 odd years ago, we wouldn't have ended up here?
    Maybe if the US had not invaded Iraq in 2003 and then left a power vacuum in 2010 that led to the refugee crisis spilling over into Europe, we wouldn't be here now?
    Maybe if concerns from many about the ability to acquire 30 round magazines without a license had been addressed we wouldn't be here?
    Maybe if vetting staff had actually followed process and had 2 real referees, and not from an internet chat room and declined a firearms license application, we wouldn't be here?
    veitnamcam, tetawa, Happy and 10 others like this.
    Welcome to Sako club.

  9. #9
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    Dead right about the father not pulling out 28 years ago, he should have not dropped his dacks.
    Bol Tackshin likes this.

  10. #10
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    Pretty much all semi-autos in this country, especially MSSA types, had been living on borrowed time since even before the Aramoana shootings, when New Zealand was being flooded with Chinese AKs with three 30 round magazines for $550 brand new, SKS rifles and thousands of ex army SLRs being dumped on the market for $350.

    The police tried to stop the import of these kind of guns in June 1990, fearing the results of their misuse. Which of course happened five months months later.

    They were only narrowly saved by having the E cat endorsement brought in after 13 people were shot dead with an 5.56mm AK and a semi-auto .22.

    Then they were under threat from the Thorpe Report recommendations (As were all guns, but especially MSSAs).

    Then of course we had licensed collectors and dealers like Dale Jenner, John Mabey and others selling MSSAs, pistols and machine-guns to gang members and other criminals who were shooting at each other, police and members of the public.

    Since then it was simply a matter of time before the next nutter shot a bunch of people with one and we lost them all. I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner, what with all the military type guns and big magazines available to anyone with an A licence.
    Moa Hunter likes this.

  11. #11
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    No, we're not. Next question?

  12. #12
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    No, how about the police do the vetting thoroughly or the punishment for firearm misuse be severe? If you give the radical anti gun morons (sometimes referred to as police) an inch, they take a mile. Case in point the current proposed bill.
    veitnamcam and Bol Tackshin like this.

  13. #13
    LBD
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    Blame?
    I firmly lay liability on two fronts.
    1) The Police who did not administer the license vetting laws to the correct appropriate legal extent.
    2) The Govt who recently modified the law that enabled the online ordering process to proceed without scrutiny, and that the process had not flagged the event where one person was amassing MSSAs.
    Maca49 and Moa Hunter like this.

  14. #14
    Member Col.Whiplash's Avatar
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    Pump action shotguns with over 5 round capacity are also included!
    They are making hunters/shooters into a second class citizen and removing our rights and this is only the start of it. That clown Winston can be blamed for putting that clueless PM in place.
    Ardern: "We are one" BS, they are one and we are excluded - little or no representation in this "democratic" process.

    Last century our grand parrents went to war with the white supremacists in Europe (the Nazis). 12,000 odd didn't return and are known as heroes for sacrificing themselves for family, friends, freedoms and rights. One white supremacist surfaces now and we roll over and give away some of our rights, freedoms and willingly let others demean us. Pathetic.

    And I do agree that the AR's should not have been permitted to non E class licensed people as there was not enough vetting rigor and looser security requirements.
    The D is silent, hillbilly!

  15. #15
    Member Blisters's Avatar
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    has anyone realised how dumb this all is, anyone can just get a 3d printer and download files to make most parts that are outlawed

 

 

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