Thread: Police recording serial numbers

Originally Posted by csmiffy

It isnt a case of doing the right thing.
It isnt about doing it because it is most likely happening.
It isnt because you are doing everything right so why worry
It is because this has been introduced for the wrong reasons, by people that have an agenda to get rid of the lot and this is a stepping stone.
I dont trust them to look after the info properly, data leaks or just outright corruption.
I dont trust them to use this for future stupid confiscations.
I see no need to help them get one going by giving them info in a manner that might make this work.
I suspect, because of the way they do things, it will be a a massive cluster. They wont handle.the information given, it wont be done fast enough and most likely be hugely inaccurate.
I also reckon any informally gathered info wont be stored properly now. All but guarantee it wont be in the format that the new registry so that wont be entered properly.
Nope just nope.
They excluded and vilified fire arms owners and did a lot of this on their own. It wouldve gone a lot smoother with better ideas to achieve the outcomes needed, not what they wanted.
Coppers and govt didnt want our help so why should they get it now? Rhetorical

Just like training a new AO without having prior interest or knowledge of firearms. They see it as a clerical roll and heaven forbid they may like them, understand them, collect or form warm relationships with like minded FAL owners.

Originally Posted by muzza

I have records of make , model , serial number and condition on all my firearms. The only ones the Police have that info for are ones I have mail ordered. I dont have a problem with that - its the process so it has to be done.

But voluntarily handing over my firearms information - not gonna happen till its law.

While I am not 100% certain of the current requirements, I know that just because there is space for it on the form DOES NOT MEAN it has to be filled it. The purpose of the mail order form is to verify the details of the purchaser, by the police, on behalf of the seller - that the purchaser has the legal ability to purchase items. EG : The birthdate DOES NOT have to be provided- the form can and should be used for the mail order purchase of Airguns where the purchaser is required to be over 18 (or have a FAL if under 18) If the police want the sellers address or License details, then as a FAL holder, they already have them on file AND have verified they are correct. As a seller, why would I need the sellers details on a Police form? If I want to know the sellers FAL details I will open my wallet and look at my bloody license!!!!! I dont need to know where the seller lives? As the seller I am pretty sure I know where I live. If I didn't then I probably should not have a license.....

But most importantly- do not remind the Police of the stupidity with these regs- they can get really pissy when they see the obviousness of it and get in a huff and become even more difficult.

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Why would you email sensitive information? Just another avenue for someone to find electronically.
I've never had information recorded with a pen and paper hacked.

In itself it's useless. No personally identifiable information.(no don't use your work email address etc)

The bottom line is the NZ Police are drop dead useless at the Administration side of things (anythings) which is why the Firearms Register was dropped in 1983 through their own mismanagement. This one will be no different, budgetary constraints will start, Police will cut costs and it will be abandoned or they will try to lump costs on to LaFOs which will result in the same thing.

Originally Posted by OGM

One should always assume the primary security for firearms needs to be closer to home. Its not just the Police - the shop which sold the stuff also has their own records. Shooting clubs are now required to keep records too.

And police are advising clubs not to record addresses or other traceable information on members to avoid creating a "shopping list"it's a circus.

Originally Posted by BSA

The bottom line is the NZ Police are drop dead useless at the Administration side of things (anythings) which is why the Firearms Register was dropped in 1983 through their own mismanagement. This one will be no different, budgetary constraints will start, Police will cut costs and it will be abandoned or they will try to lump costs on to LaFOs which will result in the same thing.

Yip. This is exactly what will happen. The only question is how long it takes. It's being half assed and the amount of work is being underestimated

Originally Posted by Danger Mouse

Yip. This is exactly what will happen. The only question is how long it takes. It's being half assed and the amount of work is being underestimated

Fade to meme with taxcinda head on a lord of the rings Gollum body saying " we wants it, we needs it, precious"
As I have said before a lot of this smacks of an industrial risk assessment. They have gone through what went wrong and the steps needed to cover anything they have found.
Cops want to know what you have so they can go in prepared? Need registration-check
Wasnt vetted properly? Make FAL application really stringent even though it was administrative failure-check
Dickhead went to a gun club? Let's make it really hard for gun clubs to keep going-check

I’m in the Hunting and Fishing in Otaki,buying hunting gear….strike up a conversation with the store person,who tells me he’s just renewed his licence,…major clusterfuck of a process etc etc….but what caught my attention is when he stated…….”they asked me if I’m on any hunting/gun/ fishing forums”..they wanted his non- de -plume etc to check out his posts /views etc…….really???….ANY TRUTH TO THAT??……..reckons when renewing,stay off the sites ,say nothing………has anyone else come across this…….or is this just porky=pies

Originally Posted by muzza

or maybe the lack of trust in the police in general - and the fact that there is no legal requirement to give that information. Ive said it before - why would you?

It's not even a lack of trust. The police have demonstrated on multiple occasions both physically and electronically an inability to keep our information secure. And there is a perception that when they lose our information there is a lack of care or remorse.

learned something fun today

New Zealand is the top country by burglary rate in the world. As of 2020, burglary rate in New Zealand was 1,206.9 cases per 100,000 population. The top 5 countries also includes Sweden, Dominica, Denmark, and Chile.

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Why would you email sensitive information? Just another avenue for someone to find electronically.
I've never had information recorded with a pen and paper hacked.

I beg to differ.....the (rubbish?) bins at the old Auckland cop shop show they managed to get those 'hacked' as well.....

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Surely if you record it yourself your security system will be more robust than the police's?

Yep, just take the info with you when you move. Don' leave it behind in the bin.

Originally Posted by vulcannz

It's not even a lack of trust. The police have demonstrated on multiple occasions both physically and electronically an inability to keep our information secure. And there is a perception that when they lose our information there is a lack of care or remorse.

And no accountability

Originally Posted by A330driver

I’m in the Hunting and Fishing in Otaki,buying hunting gear….strike up a conversation with the store person,who tells me he’s just renewed his licence,…major clusterfuck of a process etc etc….but what caught my attention is when he stated…….”they asked me if I’m on any hunting/gun/ fishing forums”..they wanted his non- de -plume etc to check out his posts /views etc…….really???….ANY TRUTH TO THAT??……..reckons when renewing,stay off the sites ,say nothing………has anyone else come across this…….or is this just porky=pies

Have just been through the relicensing process and they didn't ask about forums but I didn't volunteer the information

They have a lot of blank spaces on their forms that they are told to fill in which you don't have to tell them anything about - more policy being treated as the law, unfortunately

wouldnt surprise me if they do some sort of amnesty initially, get people to volunterily provide serial numbers before they start charging per registry transaction. I personally suspect they will charge for each electronic entry in the DB. we will have to do it ourselves and I dont think it will be cheap. The police will want to recoup some of that $$$$ spent on the shit software and they will possibly try to price people out to reduce the number of firearms in circulation. At this stage we can't fight it.