Thread: 223 adventures

Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP

That's interesting I've not seen that from a Tikka of any caliber I've had but I've also never used factory ammo.

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Are you considering all groups fired by the rifle or just selected "that's nice" ones?

the rifle seems like long bullets, the sierra mk 77g belmont under 1". none of the soft points reloads and factory dont group well.

Originally Posted by Tentman

Are you considering all groups fired by the rifle or just selected "that's nice" ones?

I don't normally shot 10 shot groups it's a waste of ammo but every time I check this before hunting I do a 3 or 5 shot group and same thing.
This loads shoots great out to 600M.
I only did the 10 shot group after reading Gimps post.

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Originally Posted by gimp

Here's the data:

N=

12x 10rd groups with HNW
8x 10rd groups with HPR
23x 10rd groups with HFP
19x 10rd groups with Tikka (factory ammo)

Howas are a mix of factory and handloads, probably why they've performed slightly better vs the tikka with all factory
Attachment 282913

Be good to see some targets to back up the data. Data sheets on their own mean diddly squat to me. Don’t own a Sako or Tikka anymore but the ones I’ve owned have had more than acceptable accuracy for hunting purposes. Couple of DOC shooters I know both have Sako 75’s using factory ammo, mostly Hornady 55 gr. They shoot animals, not targets. Neither of them have any intention of parting with rifles.
My own primary rifle is a Howa SA 223. Heavier than I’d like but have no intention of parting with it either. Good accuracy for hunting and it holds its own out to 600 yds at NZNRA Ranges.

Originally Posted by woods223

Be good to see some targets to back up the data. Data sheets on their own mean diddly squat to me. Don’t own a Sako or Tikka anymore but the ones I’ve owned have had more than acceptable accuracy for hunting purposes. Couple of DOC shooters I know both have Sako 75’s using factory ammo, mostly Hornady 55 gr. They shoot animals, not targets. Neither of them have any intention of parting with rifles.
My own primary rifle is a Howa SA 223. Heavier than I’d like but have no intention of parting with it either. Good accuracy for hunting and it holds its own out to 600 yds at NZNRA Ranges.

Which DOC shooters?










Etc. Representative tikka results with a range of factory ammo.

@gimp. "Which DOC shooters?"
I'm not about to post their names without their permission and I fail to see any need to. Do you think you know every person who shoots for DOC or something ? I can assure you that you don't.
As an aside, Here is a screenshot of target shot with Howa 1500 SA 16'' 223 using factory Hornady 55gr SP, I think. Either that or Fiocchi SP. Shot off bum-bag at fore-end and hand support at butt. Variable breeze from 2 0'clock. Maybe not the flashest but good enough for goats etc.

@woods223 Can you give me any idea of speeds with 73, 75, or 77's at all. Thinking of knocking the Howa back from 20.

Originally Posted by nor-west

@woods223 Can you give me any idea of speeds with 73, 75, or 77's at all. Thinking of knocking the Howa back from 20.

Ive run all of those weights from multiple 16 inch howas. Typically you range 2650-2750 from heavy to light. My 9 twist howa i just took to Alaska has the 73s at 2745 and I could really push a little more with staball match.

Originally Posted by woods223

@gimp. "Which DOC shooters?"
I'm not about to post their names without their permission and I fail to see any need to. Do you think you know every person who shoots for DOC or something ? I can assure you that you don't.
As an aside, Here is a screenshot of target shot with Howa 1500 SA 16'' 223 using factory Hornady 55gr SP, I think. Either that or Fiocchi SP. Shot off bum-bag at fore-end and hand support at butt. Variable breeze from 2 0'clock. Maybe not the flashest but good enough for goats etc.
Attachment 283042

Out of interest what does being doc shooters have to do with anything when making claims without evidence? Didn't you just ask him to supply evidence to suit his tables.

Also the human memory is a selective and fickle thing. Its not pure and accurate.

The amount of guys that genuinely believe they have sub moa or even 1/4moa rifles i meet at the handloaders then they go shoot 5 3 shot groups that ones submarine and the rest are like 2 inches. And they still think it was just "the new primers/ insert another excuse etc" and thats without me pressing them just people talking. If thats what you say all the time and you dont shoot paper often it would be pretty easy to end up believing your own hype.

Like has been suggested @gimps tried heaps of options testing ammo in lots of rifles. Most guys if it shoots shit try something else and move on and call it a 1moa shooter even it it took 5 loads. My Tikka hated a couple projectiles and loved a couple. The ones it like it liked better than the howas I've had.

Ive seen very few tikkas as accurate as the claims where it wasn't a photo of a Cherry picked 3 shot or 5 shot group. Being able to hits animals further away doesn't actually require what most people deem good accuracy. Even a 3moa gun has a pretty high hit rate out to 300m given a good zero and dope.

Ffs. I only mentioned the doc shooters because they both happen to have Sako 75’s which provide more than adequate accuracy to perform their job which involves open tops shooting on places like Molesworth, Clarence Reserve etc. Anyone who’s hunted these areas will know how challenging they can be.
I asked for targets because anyone can produce a data sheet, whether or not it’s based on real world results. Not intending to have a dig at anyone but after years of dealing with data sheets versus real world results I’m somewhat cynical of them.
Personally. I take f-all photos of dead animals, just tails and/or gps waypoints for DOC/ landowners or my own records. So no corroborating evidence for those that like photos but that’s why I put up the screenshot representative of what my particular work rifle can do on a daily basis. Not a tack driver but good enough for hunting.
At the range (200 yds for Deerstalkers, 300+ for NRA) I’ve seen plenty of guys rock up and say their rifle ‘shoots like a laser at 100m’ or some such statement then proceed to shoot a group that sometimes exceeds the black target area. Conversely, some do shoot pretty damn well. Anyway, enough of this, about due to go out and shoot some more animals after having a feed. Happy shooting everyone.

Originally Posted by woods223

@gimp. "Which DOC shooters?"
I'm not about to post their names without their permission and I fail to see any need to. Do you think you know every person who shoots for DOC or something ? I can assure you that you don't.
As an aside, Here is a screenshot of target shot with Howa 1500 SA 16'' 223 using factory Hornady 55gr SP, I think. Either that or Fiocchi SP. Shot off bum-bag at fore-end and hand support at butt. Variable breeze from 2 0'clock. Maybe not the flashest but good enough for goats etc.
Attachment 283042

It's immaterial to the point here really, call it a matter of curiosity


It's not like we're disagreeing on the point as far as I can see? high levels of precision aren't necessary for hunting. Yeah Tikkas in my experience don't shoot everything as well as everyone claims with cherry picked groups, but who cares? The tikka that shot those 4 groups (and a bunch more that I didn't have handy) has killed a goat or 2 without any notable difficulty

Originally Posted by nor-west

@woods223 Can you give me any idea of speeds with 73, 75, or 77's at all. Thinking of knocking the Howa back from 20.

73 ELDM’s. 2643.9 fps average according to Garmin chronicle. 2208 powder. Not the fastest but accurate enough.

Originally Posted by nor-west

@woods223 Can you give me any idea of speeds with 73, 75, or 77's at all. Thinking of knocking the Howa back from 20.

Factory 73s do 2550-2600 from 16" barrels, 2600-2660 from different 18s.

Originally Posted by woods223

Ffs. I only mentioned the doc shooters because they both happen to have Sako 75’s which provide more than adequate accuracy to perform their job which involves open tops shooting on places like Molesworth, Clarence Reserve etc. Anyone who’s hunted these areas will know how challenging they can be.
I asked for targets because anyone can produce a data sheet, whether or not it’s based on real world results. Not intending to have a dig at anyone but after years of dealing with data sheets versus real world results I’m somewhat cynical of them.
Personally. I take f-all photos of dead animals, just tails and/or gps waypoints for DOC/ landowners or my own records. So no corroborating evidence for those that like photos but that’s why I put up the screenshot representative of what my particular work rifle can do on a daily basis. Not a tack driver but good enough for hunting.
At the range (200 yds for Deerstalkers, 300+ for NRA) I’ve seen plenty of guys rock up and say their rifle ‘shoots like a laser at 100m’ or some such statement then proceed to shoot a group that sometimes exceeds the black target area. Conversely, some do shoot pretty damn well. Anyway, enough of this, about due to go out and shoot some more animals after having a feed. Happy shooting everyone.

On a less contentious note Is that group at 300y and 1 inch squares? If so id put it under a tack driver class if thats what it repeats. Id be happy with any rifle that does that.

Originally Posted by gimp

Factory 73s do 2550-2600 from 16" barrels, 2600-2660 from different 18s.

Yeah my 8 test mini barrels both did 2580 with factory 73s and my 8 twist one now does 2550. All 16" barrels but different ammo lots.