.284 ELD-X Close Range Blow Up

Keen to hear some thoughts on this situation. Built a new .284 using a tikka running standard 22 inch barrel length. Running 150gn ELD-X MV of 2,930 got it shooting sub .4 moa groups. Built this to be my one gun for everything and typically I am shooting most of my game +200 yards down here in the south island, but on occasions will be close range, like a few weekends ago where I shot a large bodied red hind at 50 yards middle of the shoulder. The round exploded under the near side skin with obvious over expansion. Did not touch any of the vitals required follow up neck shot. I have successfully used ELD-X close range before in another .284 18 inch barrel but only doing around 2,750 no problem. Has anyone struck similar issues. According to chat GPT I am shooting the ELD-X above its optimal expansion range for close up shots.

I really don't want to have to develop 2 loads so any thoughts would be appreciated. I might dial the speed back to 2,850 which will still give me good velocity/terminal performance at 600 yards my maximum range.

Cheers Team.

or bump up to the 162 eldx mate was running the 150 in his 708 not sure of the speed but surly 200fps slower was a 18" barrel and they hammered everything.

i would still think 2930 isnt crazy speed might have just been bad luck and the bullet had a random failure

Hey mate thanks for your thoughts. It is a data point of one animal so I am conscious about jumping to conclusions. Will play around with the 162, my first load dev wasn't that impressive accuracy wise but to be fair need to play with more seating depths.

Yes, I've been shooting the 150's at about 3100 from my 26" 284 and have found them to be very, very, explosive on roos. Literal paddock pizza inside of 150m.

Glad I found this out on roos before attempting to shoot deer with that load.

Put a single round of"something else" up first.its ONLY for sub hundyfifty sort of deal.you WONT have to do any load delepment as you not asking it to be gnats nuts at three hundy. A bog std interlock of similar weight with same or flyshit less powder charge would be my first pick...chances are high it will shoot very close to other load anyway.

Did you actually necropsy it? To be honest its mostly lungs up that far forward and lung shots dont kill all that quick or dont give dramatic deaths from my experience. It just sounds like the typical reaction to that sort of shot. I would be shocked if it didnt make it through the maybe 5 inchs of shoulder meat to hit what was behind (either lungs or nothing important).

Once i started cutting animals id shot back layer by layer i was often suprised at what i found. Provides good data too.

Yep, 150 ELDx are really suited to 708 speeds rather than 284. I shot a decent size stag at 180yds with 150ELDx doing 2900 fps out of 20in bbl 284. Shot placement was in the crease just behind shoulder. Ran about 30yds then collapsed. Found the jacket under the skin on the offside. Almost total jacket separation with only a tiny amount of core retained in base. Lungs & everything inside chest cavity were turned to pulp. I wouldn’t recommend using 150 ELDx out of an 284 inside 200 yds based on that experience. But will perform really well down range. I use 145 gn Speer HC or 140g AB or 150 partitions for close range. But about to change over to 141gn Hammers. These are running 3140fps from 22in bbl Tikka 284

The ELDX is designed to be fine at most normal hunting ranges. The reason Hornady don’t recommend the ELDM for hunting is the tip construction and the QC around it, or the lack there of. A match bullet doesn’t need terminal performance, hence why they put less effort into checking tip construction (how it’s bonded to the core of the bullet), the ELDX on the other hand has more QC around the tip construction as it’s a key component to terminal performance. I’d say this a random failure and not something to be too worried about

Just unlucky on that one id say mate,dont freak out after one incident.

Generally what I'm hearing from multiple customers that were using ELDX's in various calibre's is that they appeared to be causing multiple issues with unsatisfactory terminal performance ie too hard

Your experience seems to be the opposite

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Originally Posted by chainsaw

Yep, 150 ELDx are really suited to 708 speeds rather than 284. I shot a decent size stag at 180yds with 150ELDx doing 2900 fps out of 20in bbl 284. Shot placement was in the crease just behind shoulder. Ran about 30yds then collapsed. Found the jacket under the skin on the offside. Almost total jacket separation with only a tiny amount of core retained in base. Lungs & everything inside chest cavity were turned to pulp. I wouldn’t recommend using 150 ELDx out of an 284 inside 200 yds based on that experience. But will perform really well down range. I use 145 gn Speer HC or 140g AB or 150 partitions for close range. But about to change over to 141gn Hammers. These are running 3140fps from 22in bbl Tikka 284

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So you shot a good sized stag it died 30yards from point of impact. All vital organs shredded clearly a dead deer in all situations.

But your not happy with the experience because you didnt like how the bullet looked? Would you have preferred the bullet just put a small moderate hole through the vitals the of the deer who then ran 150 yards and collapsed but the bullet exited or was a nice looking mushroom stopping in the same spot?

Why does it matter at all what the bullet looked like?

Just some food for thought.

I run the 150 eld-x in my 7mm.08. MV is a mild 2580fps. Have dropped deer from 50m to 350m. Projectile is usually recovered under the skin on opposite side. I have had several projectiles separate , but animals have all expired quickly. Certainly wouldn't call it a "failure." I to have heard multiple stories of the Eld-x "blowing up" and have often wondered if it was a velocity issue rather than a projectile issue?. Perhaps they just don't like going fast. Accuracy is great. I often shoot this load out to 1000m on steel successfully.

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Maybe I didn’t explain myself well enough. Given what I observed with a pill that didn’t connect with any major bones (total jacket/core separation) then I’m very sceptical about what the outcome would be if pill had hit shoulder instead of crease. My guess based on observed terminal performance is that I would have had a blow up on shoulder & badly wounded deer with pill unlikely to penetrate to vitals. Doesn’t fit with my idea of ethical hunting. Others experience may differ.

Used the .277 145grain eldx with similar results at close range. 2900fps muzzle velocity. Way better bullets available. Wouldn’t use them again.

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Originally Posted by AlpineHunter

Keen to hear some thoughts on this situation. Built a new .284 using a tikka running standard 22 inch barrel length. Running 150gn ELD-X MV of 2,930 got it shooting sub .4 moa groups. Built this to be my one gun for everything and typically I am shooting most of my game +200 yards down here in the south island, but on occasions will be close range, like a few weekends ago where I shot a large bodied red hind at 50 yards middle of the shoulder. The round exploded under the near side skin with obvious over expansion. Did not touch any of the vitals required follow up neck shot. I have successfully used ELD-X close range before in another .284 18 inch barrel but only doing around 2,750 no problem. Has anyone struck similar issues. According to chat GPT I am shooting the ELD-X above its optimal expansion range for close up shots.

I really don't want to have to develop 2 loads so any thoughts would be appreciated. I might dial the speed back to 2,850 which will still give me good velocity/terminal performance at 600 yards my maximum range.

Cheers Team.

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Gave up on the 150 ELD-X in 7mm-08 (about 2550fps at muzzle) after some inconsistent results shooting red hinds. Either near-instant kill or slow dead run when shot in the same place, just behind the shoulder. Erratic expansion.

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Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

Generally what I'm hearing from multiple customers that were using ELDX's in various calibre's is that they appeared to be causing multiple issues with unsatisfactory terminal performance ie too hard

Your experience seems to be the opposite

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It's more that the bullet performs inconsistently on the terminal end, but shoots well in smaller capacity, slower twist 7mm's.

Suspect the polymer tip and bullet nose interface is not ideal.

The 162 AMAX (not ELDM) or 180 ELDM are much better bullets all round.

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Originally Posted by Mararoa

Used the .277 145grain eldx with similar results at close range. 2900fps muzzle velocity. Way better bullets available. Wouldn’t use them again.

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What would you say is a better .277 bullet ? I've used them in 270win and wsm with 0 failures from 10 yards to 400+ so if there's a better bullet I'd love to know what it is ? Genuine query as I'll be loading 270win again real soon :cool:

Sing out if you want some 150 GRN Speer grandslams bud....

And the answer to the question of what's the best projectiles in .277 well although I've only used a few of them,the 150 GRN partition has to be right up there. And before someone screams about piss poor BC blah blah blah. If your shooting past 300 which is only time that matters,you are dialing anyway do point is moot

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

And the answer to the question of what's the best projectiles in .277 well although I've only used a few of them,the 150 GRN partition has to be right up there. And before someone screams about piss poor BC blah blah blah. If your shooting past 300 which is only time that matters,you are dialing anyway do point is moot

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Bc isnt for dialing it for retaining velocity so the bullet works for more distance. It also helps minimise wind deflection. A lower bc but proportionally faster bullet will usually have less drop out a long way.

I drive the 145 eldx in the .270 win at about 3060 fps with RL26. Very explosive.
They kill emphatically the fallow I mostly hunt. Heaps of damage and exit wounds. Very similiar to the 140 Nosler BT.
Very good broadside.

Not sure I’d want to use them on front on on really big deer like sambar. But I love the trajectory to 500.


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Originally Posted by AlpineHunter

Hey mate thanks for your thoughts. It is a data point of one animal so I am conscious about jumping to conclusions. Will play around with the 162, my first load dev wasn't that impressive accuracy wise but to be fair need to play with more seating depths.

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Bump to 162s and change powder. Seating depth isnt going to change much precision wise.

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Originally Posted by caberslash

It's more that the bullet performs inconsistently on the terminal end, but shoots well in smaller capacity, slower twist 7mm's.

Suspect the polymer tip and bullet nose interface is not ideal.

The 162 AMAX (not ELDM) or 180 ELDM are much better bullets all round.

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Yeah circulating theory is that they have an issue with tip falling off during flight leading to penciling.

I ditched them in 6.5 after eperiences with them penciling. Went back to eldms, make a mess but make things dead

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Originally Posted by Stocky

Bc isnt for dialing it for retaining velocity so the bullet works for more distance. It also helps minimise wind deflection. A lower bc but proportionally faster bullet will usually have less drop out a long way.

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You miss my point.... It won't hold up as good as something more aerodynamic but your already dialing from known click values...so however aerodynamic or not so much is a moot point.in theory if it held accuracy at distance you could shoot to a mile with .45/70

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

so however aerodynamic or not so much is a moot point.in theory if it held accuracy at distance you could shoot to a mile with .45/70

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On a large target, in a vacuum with no wind & your lucky undies on :D

How do you know about my lucky undies???? You been spying on me??

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

You miss my point.... It won't hold up as good as something more aerodynamic but your already dialing from known click values...so however aerodynamic or not so much is a moot point.in theory if it held accuracy at distance you could shoot to a mile with .45/70

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Your missing the point sorry Micky. Just because a you know the drop off a bullet at XYZ distance thats moot if the bullets not going fast enough (at impact) to expand at that distance. Bc helps make sure its still going fast enough no one has ever talked about drop or clicks except you.

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Originally Posted by dannyb

What would you say is a better .277 bullet ? I've used them in 270win and wsm with 0 failures from 10 yards to 400+ so if there's a better bullet I'd love to know what it is ? Genuine query as I'll be loading 270win again real soon :cool:

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Lrab

Iv had lots of failures of various weights with eldx all of them now days id say we’re driven to fast I on occasion shot the 150eldx at 2650fps and from the limited amount iv shot with it no failures yet . I do avoid them now days iv also had some excellent kills with them but enough bad to let them go

It's an impossible situation for projectile makers. A bullet that will perform at the longer ranges people expect nowadays... but that will work up close too. Im using 162s in my 280 AI at moderate velocities, but at close bush hunting ranges. I use them because my rifle has been problematic and they are the one that shoots well. But Ive been surprised at how quickly they disintegrate at 20-40 yards and 2700fps. I suspect they will be great at 3 or 400.
I used the 160 accubond for a while and had the opposite experience. Can't win.
@dannyb What distances are you wanting to use your 270 at?

In reality 0-400y max

No I didn't but given its behaviour I could tell nothing vital had been hit.

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Originally Posted by Stocky

Your missing the point sorry Micky. Just because a you know the drop off a bullet at XYZ distance thats moot if the bullets not going fast enough (at impact) to expand at that distance. Bc helps make sure its still going fast enough no one has ever talked about drop or clicks except you.

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So it's ok to use a 70-80 GRN .224 at 500 yards....but a .277 or .284 of soft construction of twice that out half as far again is somehow lacking because it's slowed down a bit??? That 1800 fps thing that's talked about seems to have superseded the 1000 ft-lb thing that used to be talked about... And if we go back to original question. Were asking about projectiles blowing up by going too quick. So it's really soft,fragile at speed....so it's not so fragile when it slows..... Soft for slow or long distance .....harder for fast or up close PLUS the point of aim thing. Very soft or explody = in crease or neck. Harder,less explody = smash shoulder bones.

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Originally Posted by chainsaw

Maybe I didn’t explain myself well enough. Given what I observed with a pill that didn’t connect with any major bones (total jacket/core separation) then I’m very sceptical about what the outcome would be if pill had hit shoulder instead of crease. My guess based on observed terminal performance is that I would have had a blow up on shoulder & badly wounded deer with pill unlikely to penetrate to vitals. Doesn’t fit with my idea of ethical hunting. Others experience may differ.

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Yep this is exactly the same way I am looking at it. There is plenty of times where I am putting it through the front shoulder bone, deliberate shot or not. Thinking about trying the 150 accubond or LR accubond as both ballistically will give me plenty of reach but are by all accounts les fragable compared to the ELDX. Interesting I have had really good results shooting 154 SST's out of my 18 inch .284. Dropped a big 'ole bull tahr from 10 meters on the spot with a quartering shot behind the shoulder and deer at a variety of ranges. It shoots sub .3 MOA groups all day long. What are peoples experience with SST's 0-500 yards?

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Originally Posted by Yesmate

Just unlucky on that one id say mate,dont freak out after one incident.

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Yep one incident doesn't make it a fact but interesting to hear others experiences......

And I used 45/70 a bit tongue in cheek...but a .45 sized hole is still a .45 sized hole and that lets lots of red stuff out or as Chaz used to say,lets lots of daylight in lol.

If an ELDX is too frangible who in their right mind would ever use ELDM on animals.......:wtfsmilie:

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

So it's ok to use a 70-80 GRN .224 at 500 yards....but a .277 or .284 of soft construction of twice that out half as far again is somehow lacking because it's slowed down a bit??? That 1800 fps thing that's talked about seems to have superseded the 1000 ft-lb thing that used to be talked about... And if we go back to original question. Were asking about projectiles blowing up by going too quick. So it's really soft,fragile at speed....so it's not so fragile when it slows..... Soft for slow or long distance .....harder for fast or up close PLUS the point of aim thing. Very soft or explody = in crease or neck. Harder,less explody = smash shoulder bones.

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Micky to quote the statement im rebutting since once again your missing the point and bringing random context into the situation no relevant.

You said about BC "If your shooting past 300 which is only time that matters,you are dialing anyway do point is moot"

So no one mentioned 300 yards. Danny mentioned 400yards afterwards. No one even mentioned 500 yards. The original poster mentioned 600.

I didnt say anything was ok. But it doesnt really matter the diameter of a bullet at all. It matters the constriction of the bullet and that it impacts at high enough velocity the bullets expands to kill effectively.

I never said a partition was worse or better. Im just calling out your relatively common absolute nonsense comments. In practical ranges BC is not a massive deal but claiming in benefits are moot because you still need to dial is either completely misunderstanding the topic or being disingenuous.

The 1800fps is a generic number given to most soft bullets. Each bullet is on its own but its to nuanced and should be tested on its own. If you aren't willing to find out where that is the 1800fps is a safe number for soft bullets, 2000 for many traditional options and 2200 for monos. None of those are rules just guidelines not rules. If you find they dont apply then find what does.

As to the original post it was asking about bullet performance. An assumptions been made I asked for clarification.

Guiding moose someone shot one with a 270 it went about 50 yards (with a 150 partition) and died. The comments afterwards were maybe the 270 was too small.

Later that season a moose sucked up 3 lung shots from a 300Wby then died 200 odd yards away in a pond. The comments on that were that "damn they are a tough animal". When we subconsciously worry about something we are quick to conclude the problem even though contently on those 2 samples the 270 worked better he was worried it was too small and confirmation bias snuck in.

So I asked if he necropsied it as going too far forward into the shoulder is a bad shot, cutting it open would mean he knows for sure it wasn't just the vitals were further back. Reacting to a single point of info is like shooting 1 shot groups.

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Originally Posted by dannyb

In reality 0-400y max

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Then the world's your oyster! Any of the better older style projectiles will do a great job I think. I swore by 130gr corlokts for years, and now am very impressed with Speer boattails. A bit softer but they have worked well up close on big boars and at a distance on reds and chamois (300m) Interlocts, Ballistic tips, you name it. The great thing about the 270 win is most projectiles are designed specifically for it.

I havnt tried them but if after the modern stuff then despite everything else, I have heard only good things about the 145 ELDX

Stocky.MY context re BC was to head off the continual "my .284 is better than your .277 cause we have better BC options"& point I was trying to make was.....if your going to be dialing up for a given range....a slightly less aerodynamic projectiles can be placed just as easily as the very slipperyest of them. If it will expand enough to kill....take note of placement vs hardness....all is good. And speaking of expansion. If .30 expands to create a hole half as big again,is good....then a .45 hole is good.........full stop...lol