Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Ammo Direct DPT


User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18
Like Tree16Likes

Thread: 308 Subsonic powder alternative to Trailboss

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Waimauku
    Posts
    23

    308 Subsonic powder alternative to Trailboss

    Anyone got any powder alternatives for Trailboss using Robert walkers 151’s

  2. #2
    Member Marty Henry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Tararua
    Posts
    7,045
    Unique 8 grains
    NAKED_GOOSE likes this.

  3. #3
    Ngo
    Ngo is offline
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    Rotorua
    Posts
    202
    Vihtavuori n32 c tinstar use 9.5gr with 190 grain sub x

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    958
    I have found AP 70 and Unique are very similar to trailboss in most cases and are not overly position sensitive.I loaded 13 Gr unique in 303 and 45/70 with cast bullets and now use 11 or 12 Gr trailboss. AP70 is also sold as Universal and is touted as equivalent to Unique.
    As always find data you can trust before using any load.
    CBH Australia likes this.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    The 'Naki
    Posts
    2,470
    For Cast bullets, Red Dot, Green Dot have been widely used in 30 cal. ADI have published data for AS30N, a Shotgun/Pistol powder. Some other Shotgun powders are very close to AS30N, which is very close to Red Dot. 10gn is a useful start point to work up or down from. Subsonic tends to run below 10gn. Below 10gn, any such powder, be sure projectile leaves your barrel. 7.0gn is kinda getting down there. Its also useful with cast to consider 13gn as likely to be a max load. Generally 13gn in 30 cal and 303B will give you between 1400 and 1800fps. Accuracy tends to deteriorate quickly after 1400fps. Higher velocity in cast is feasible with accuracy but tends to require a specific combo of lead hardness, gas check and bullet lube. Twist rate really comes into play. Starting out I wondered why my 303B was not registering any hits on a large piece of cardboard at around 35m. The big Grey cloud between muzzle and target turned out to be 215gn of too soft lead vaporizing at something around 2200fps over a 45gn charge of RL19. A published load for a Woodleigh lead bullet BTW.

    Anyway. Lots of options for you. While you get your sub load sorted, try a load around 1200-1400fps. You may be surprised how quiet, accurate and hard hitting it can be.

    Have fun.
    Micky Duck and NAKED_GOOSE like this.
    I know a lot but it seems less every day...

    Due to the exorbitant cost of reloading components, warning shots will not be given.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Waimauku
    Posts
    23
    The good thing about Trailboss is it is bulky. Other powders aren’t so bulky so looking for alternatives really that are more readily available.

  7. #7
    Member Marty Henry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Tararua
    Posts
    7,045
    There's no other powder with the characteristics of trail boss. Personally I've never had great results with it certainly not enough to make me change from unique and red dot plus it burns dirty compared to them. The bulk aspect of it is seen as a plus by some compared to 7 or 9 grains of pistol powder, it's impossible to double charge a case with it but if you're inattentive you could with red dot etc. They are far more cost effective than TB.

  8. #8
    Member Driverman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    HUTT VALLEY
    Posts
    461
    AP 70 with a bit of dacron to hold powder against the primer works really well. A heavier bullet would be better .
    308 likes this.

  9. #9
    Member Oldbloke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Victoria Australia
    Posts
    591
    15gr of AS50n in my 30.06 180gr cast gives about 1500fps. I tried Dacron once. Never again, very dirty result in barrel. It's bloody plastic!!
    I always worry about double charges. Not only do I look in the charged cases with a torch, but I drop I pencil in the case too now. A double charge or empty case becomes very obvious then.
    Hunt safe, look after the bush & plug more pests. The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
    https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
    A bit more bang is better.

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    The 'Naki
    Posts
    2,470
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldbloke View Post
    15gr of AS50n in my 30.06 180gr cast gives about 1500fps. I tried Dacron once. Never again, very dirty result in barrel. It's bloody plastic!!
    I always worry about double charges. Not only do I look in the charged cases with a torch, but I drop I pencil in the case too now. A double charge or empty case becomes very obvious then.
    Yup, forget the Dacron, fillers are not required.
    I know a lot but it seems less every day...

    Due to the exorbitant cost of reloading components, warning shots will not be given.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Tokoroa
    Posts
    1,221
    I tried 8.0 grains of AS30 with my 151HP yesterday velocity was 1275fps average for 10 shots accuracy was not great but the rifle I used is not a cast bullet fan
    The stats are quite good ES 29fps SD 8 FPS A double load 16 grains is just below the case shoulder, So easy enough to spot an overload,
    Will drop to 7.5 grains for the next trial.
    My barrel is not SAMMI spec it is a 1970's NRA Fullbore Black Mountain speced for the 144 FMJ.
    Jhon likes this.

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Tauranga
    Posts
    5,104
    Quote Originally Posted by Muddyundy View Post
    The good thing about Trailboss is it is bulky. Other powders aren’t so bulky so looking for alternatives really that are more readily available.
    Procedure when you're loading takes care of any issues with bulk or lack of it and the associated risk of double charging. i.e. grab a pill with one hand, take a primed empty case and drop a charge of powder in it and at the same time place the pill on top and seat it. Very hard to double charge if that's your procedure - easier if you are loading a tray of cases with powder at the same time.

    The benefit of the faster powders is there is virtually no delay in lighting the entire powder charge and it doesn't really matter where the powder is in the case - no need for fillers. Downside is the pressure curve is fairly abrupt which is where the dangers of the double charge come in, but if your procedures are good on the bench you can prevent this issue from happening. Trailboss is designed to get around the loading density thing by being so bulky - but it's tending to be on the dirty side and a lot of people have gone away from it for this reason plus some rifles just don't play with it. Google 'The Load' with Red Dot powder, and you get quite a bit of info on using Red Dot with all sorts of pills in the .308 case.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Tokoroa
    Posts
    1,221
    Quote Originally Posted by No.3 View Post
    Procedure when you're loading takes care of any issues with bulk or lack of it and the associated risk of double charging. i.e. grab a pill with one hand, take a primed empty case and drop a charge of powder in it and at the same time place the pill on top and seat it. Very hard to double charge if that's your procedure - easier if you are loading a tray of cases with powder at the same time.

    The benefit of the faster powders is there is virtually no delay in lighting the entire powder charge and it doesn't really matter where the powder is in the case - no need for fillers. Downside is the pressure curve is fairly abrupt which is where the dangers of the double charge come in, but if your procedures are good on the bench you can prevent this issue from happening. Trailboss is designed to get around the loading density thing by being so bulky - but it's tending to be on the dirty side and a lot of people have gone away from it for this reason plus some rifles just don't play with it. Google 'The Load' with Red Dot powder, and you get quite a bit of info on using Red Dot with all sorts of pills in the .308 case.
    I have both Red dot and AS30 their denstiny and burn rate are very similar, I am using up the AS30 first and then compare results with Red dot as I have more Red dot and don't want to waste it
    doing load development, AS30 should be easier to source than Red dot at present.

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Tauranga
    Posts
    5,104
    There's a lot of red dot about it seems, not sure about AS30 but yes they are very close in performance. I see it's in stock at Bronco's on the website where AS30n is listed as out of stock...

    P.s. what length and twist is the black mountain barrel? That 10gr might be perfect for a faster twist barrel I'm thinking...

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Tauranga
    Posts
    5,104
    Quote Originally Posted by No.3 View Post
    There's a lot of red dot about it seems, not sure about AS30 but yes they are very close in performance. I see it's in stock at Bronco's on the website where AS30n is listed as out of stock...

    P.s. what length and twist is the black mountain barrel? That 10gr might be perfect for a faster twist barrel I'm thinking...
    Sorry I'll correct that - the 8gr of AS30 don't know where I got 10 from. Probably thinking Red Dot...

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. 6.5 x 55 alternative powder to Vihtavuori N560
    By HoppyV8 in forum Reloading and Ballistics
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 25-02-2023, 05:49 PM
  2. Alternative 308win powder
    By tikka in forum Reloading and Ballistics
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 11-02-2021, 09:13 AM
  3. Alternative powder prices in Wgtn
    By steven in forum Reloading and Ballistics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-07-2015, 09:20 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Welcome to NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums! We see you're new here, or arn't logged in. Create an account, and Login for full access including our FREE BUY and SELL section Register NOW!!