Printable View
Hi there
I’m after a little info on this powder and projectile
Is anyone using this combo and have a few cues on how this powder acts and what it likes
I have a mate loading asking me questions but I have no experience with the cal or powder
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Creedmoor really needs AR2209 or similarly slow burning stuff. Imr4895 is too fast to get decent speeds with 147's.
I would say IMR4895 is way too fast for 147 grn pills try and find Hodgdon superprofrmance or 2209
Sent from my CPH2145 using Tapatalk
Have a look at the data here:
https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/rel...c=true&type=54
IMR is a Hodgdon brand - there's load data here for the whole range. When you select 6.5 Creedmoor with the 147 projectile the range of powders suggested fits with the suggestions already made here - does not include IMR4895. In the Creedmoor the 4895 would work well with 85 to 100 grain projectiles as it is similar (not the same) to AR2206H
Other options for the 147 would include Re16, Re17, AR2213, W760(H414), Win. Staball, Viht 550, 555 and even 560 just to name a few.
Great! I have a bottle of that on hand he can switch to if need beQuote:
Originally Posted by Pommy
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks mate I’ll pass that onQuote:
Originally Posted by Steelisreal
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I believe I loaded 147gr ELD with 41.5gr 2209 in a Bergara HMR. It was slow but accurate as. I'm doing a similar load with 41gr Reloder 16 in my CTR and getting 2570fps and great accuracy.
he seems dead set on using the imr 4895 even with me persuading him not to
If I cant talk him out of it Ill let you guys know if it was a good idea, catastrophic or somewhere in between
My thoughts are if he cannot source and cross reference load data himself in this day and age and continues to want to use a powder after it's been recommended not to.....then he probably shouldn't be hand loading.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill999
I second this!Quote:
Originally Posted by GWH
@Bill999 - is he loading for a short barrelled Creedmoor by any chance? Is it possible he's been reading some of the nonsense about using faster powders to 'get back' the speed lost in a short barrel?
It's not that you can't use IMR4895 with the 147, more that it is far from ideal and will be very slow. The temptation then for an inexperienced reloader is to add some more powder to speed it up and that's when it can all go really wrong.
Perhaps you should find a video to show him of what happens when a primer blows out and gas vents through the action?
Yes, in my experience when running heavy for cal bullets, even in short barrels you will actually get higher velocities using slower burning powders.
Its a choice between getting free 2209 from me or taking a gamble with your eyes, face and fingersQuote:
Originally Posted by GWH
the obvious option has not yet been taken
he will probably come round but it might take a some spicy air in his eyes before he can see logic
its about 20 ish inches from his reportQuote:
Originally Posted by Steelisreal
its a howa alpine so at least its a semi decently strong action
this is coming from reloaders supplies saying its all good and suitable so this is a little concerning as they sold him the edlms with the powder for this pourpose,
especially when he rings me and reveals that his starting load(2 grain short of what ever max load he was working on) is crunching (compression) and he can tap it and get the bullet a little further in and basically asking why he cant fit more powder in
I basically said stop this is all wrong, dont do it and let me run it past you guys
4895 is to fast to be suitable for 6.5cm in any bullet weight really
Jfc, he's a determined fool.
There's data online for IMR 4350, 4451, 4831, and 4955. If he's crunching 4895 in there then I hope his face is stronger than that action.
thanks guys ill tell him to pull them or look at swapping a seeing eye dog for his pack of pig dogs
Dunno if the powder density is correct or how much he's trying to use, but here's a "5% compressed load" for him:
Attachment 198895
Yes exactly, myself along with other forum members have whitnessed the carnage of a 308 loaded with the wrong (fast burning) powder by mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pommy
It's not pretty, and can leave permanent life changing disabilities.
Please FFS do not let him shoot these loads.
would you mind sharing what the result was? I think I can imagine but it would be good to have as an exampleQuote:
Originally Posted by GWH
sweet he just told me he pulled them all first thing this morning, and I last spoke to him late last night.Quote:
Originally Posted by GWH
disaster averted thanks again guys Ill gear him up with 2209
@Bill999 - it will be very educational to see if you can get to the bottom of what was going on here.
Did he definitely have IMR4895? If so where did he get his load data from? I checked the data from IMR and they list a max of 35.9 grains with the 140 A-Max which should be sloshing about in a Creedmoor case.
Is there a possibility he actually had IMR4955? If that were the case it would explain many things as it is similar to H4831/AR2213SC - on the slower side and bulky 100%+ loading density would be expected in the Creedmoor case with a long projectile.
I'll pmQuote:
Originally Posted by Bill999
I think he was 42gr
it didnt work and he called me up, my reloading manual is older than 6.5creedmoor so its not in there
definitly 4895
I was chatting to him on the phone as i typed up the thread and repeated it back to him to make sure it was correct
im not sure where his info came from but I was just keen to slow things down to see if there was an issue before something really bad happens
ill find out, I just wanted to make sure he didnt fire anything he had until it was clear that it was safe
Iv also got ar2213sc if that is as good or better?
[QUOTE=Pommy;1325302]Dunno if the powder density is correct or how much he's trying to use, but here's a "5% compressed load" for him:
from the sounds of it there is no way that 48 grains would even come close to fitting
42 was a crunch on a sako case
He's bloody lucky to have a mate like you @Bill999
Disaster averted :wtfsmilie:
Where on earth did he get that data from?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHNbDEoldqc
Go to the 4m mark. These guys are fools but you get the point!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECd6SHPp67A
The real thing I would also recommend that you show him the above page and the level of concern that is shown.
I had a suituation similar to the second video from excessive headspace on 270 or 30-06 cases and not having a bulge on the case neck when necked to 280 rem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideshow
My suituation was far less serious but it still blew off the plastic tikka bolt shroud and put the shits up me
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
He’s picking up the 2209 tonight so I’ll see what the root cause wasQuote:
Originally Posted by Rated M for Magnum
From what I know at the moment it was supposedly a do all powder that would go in 223 / 7mm08 and 6.5 creed which covers all his non magnum needs… he still is adamant that it’s used out there in this cal so someone somewhere might be up to something with it in this caliber even with the manufacturer pointing towards at the very least that it’s not the go
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
People get powder numbers mixed up all the time, ive even heard storys from mates, that have gone into gun stores, asked for 2208, the staff member said, "oh it doesn't look like we have any of that on the shelf, but hey here's some 2207, which is close its only one number away, that will work" FFS!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill999
Seriously, just because someone may work in a firearms store doesn't necessarily mean they know much about it all.
Ive overheard some terrible advice being given by staff in various gun shops over the years.
Greetings @Bill999,Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill999
First my hearty thanks for sticking with your mate and trying to steer him to a sensible solution. Some would have run like hell. The whole episode should remind us all to never use data from the likes of youtube or other forums, including this one, without verifying it in recent pressure tested data preferably from the powder manufacturer. The load mentioned above is likely around 6 grains over max and I shudder at the thought of someone actually firing it. I use a lot of AR2206H aka H4895 in light loads for my old soldiers but found that, even for this, AR2209 was a better alternative. Look forward to an update.
Regards Grandpamac.
