Cast Lead Thread ?

[No.3]

Red dot and 700X are nearly as bulky as Trail Boss, the problem is the .222 and .223 cases are too big for subsonic loads just about any amount of powder
will be supersonic,
my Lyman cast bullet manual has a 54gr bullet 4.3 grains of 700X at 1510 fps and 4.7 grains of Red dot at 1590 fps in a .222 they are start loads
the case needs to be at least 50% full of powder to be safe,
plain lead without GC can handle up to 1400 fps the barrel needs to be super clean any copper will rip lead from the bullet.

The case 50% full - is that a thing? Never heard that before, and the 9.5gr TB load I'm using with the 175gr Sub-X pills in the .308 is definitely not a 50% case full load???? I was of the impression that the fast powders like Red Dot, 700X and TB were position-insensitive and fast enough to not present a danger of too much surface area exposed to the primer's flame. The issue with the minimum loads as far as I was aware related to the slower powders with heavy deterrent coatings that needed to held back against the primer in a column to ensure that the powder was not lying flat on the bottom of the case exposing a lot more surface area to the primer's flame. I was of the thinking that the fast powders were basically all ignited near instantly in the loads we are working with for subs, and the danger was more a case of the near vertical pressure curve spiking too high too quickly and producing a dangerous amount of pressure near instantly, or a pill stuck in the barrel with insufficient pressure (not enough powder). It's the fine line game between not enough, and too much...

[Tokoroa Cast Projectiles]

The case 50% full - is that a thing? Never heard that before, and the 9.5gr TB load I'm using with the 175gr Sub-X pills in the .308 is definitely not a 50% case full load???? I was of the impression that the fast powders like Red Dot, 700X and TB were position-insensitive and fast enough to not present a danger of too much surface area exposed to the primer's flame. The issue with the minimum loads as far as I was aware related to the slower powders with heavy deterrent coatings that needed to held back against the primer in a column to ensure that the powder was not lying flat on the bottom of the case exposing a lot more surface area to the primer's flame. I was of the thinking that the fast powders were basically all ignited near instantly in the loads we are working with for subs, and the danger was more a case of the near vertical pressure curve spiking too high too quickly and producing a dangerous amount of pressure near instantly, or a pill stuck in the barrel with insufficient pressure (not enough powder). It's the fine line game between not enough, and too much...

I use the 50% as a safety measure with small cases and fast powder, I have had light charges barely get the projectile out of the barrel, the last one was a 7mm08 with a cast bullet developing a subsonic load I had a nice group at 50m
the next load was 2 tenths of a grain lower the first shot bounced off the ground halfway to the target, I was using Trail Boss and started with Hogdgons recommended 70% full case and worked backwards, after experimenting quite a bit
50% is safe in .308 size cases, Red dot and 700X are almost as bulky as Trail Boss and make a good substitute, Yes the slower powders can be dangerous if loaded below the recommended minimum start load, though the "Secondary Explosive Event"
as it is called has never been replicated in a lab, but it is still considered real and does happen, the Hogdgon website has reduced loads listed for most popular calibres check them out it is very interesting, If looking for lighter recoil use the fastest powder
listed for the bullet you are shooting as long as the velocity is high enough to expand the bullet or use a lighter bullet.

[akaroa1]

Here's a really big random bullet.

Scored a very cool 500 cal paper patch, straight sided, Hollow base mould yesterday

Only marking is .500
Veerry well built.
Has cap screws so late 20th century my guess

Very big deep mould.



Sliding captive base plug and a very good piece of design and execution



Mould took a long time to get up to temperature and throw nice bullets.
By 40 bullets it was really doing the business



It throws a massive 700 grains pure lead !!!
And it measures .509" which is fairly big considering it still needs its paper patch.

Certainly a huge lump of a 50 cal and another bullet option in my ever increasing hoard of 50 / 500 cal rifles

But 700 grains in a sporting rifle would be quite a handful

[Marty Henry]

Paper patching these or "powder patching" them?

[akaroa1]

Paper patching these or "powder patching" them?

Realistically don't know what to do with a 50 cal bullet that heavy.
I have 6 cartridge 50 / 500s and none would really need a 700 grainer

So there still might be a vintage 50 cal I need

[akaroa1]

I had 8 oz of Eastwood Super Gloss Clear powder coat arrive this morning.

I had read on line that it went on as a white powder and cooked to clear.
I'm looking for a traditional bullet look from PC

So I cast 120x 44 cal bullets



I put them through a sizer and then tried the Super Gloss Clear and it coats really nicely.



It cooked ti clear almost instantly when it went into the oven.

SGC PC looks great and is almost imperceptible from an uncoated bullet.



Will look perfect as a PC old school looking bullet

[Marty Henry]

That's how bullets should look. Now I've got a toaster oven once you say they work as well as the blue I'll be away

[akaroa1]

That's how bullets should look. Now I've got a toaster oven once you say they work as well as the blue I'll be away

@Marty Henry I will have to start charging for R-N-D

[akaroa1]

Just got this SPANZ 577-450 mould




Put a small pot through to just see how it casts and get a weight



Measures .463" and weighs 423 grain in pure lead

Now I have
Dies
SPANZ mould
Spanz brass
Magtech brass

Everything but a 577-450 sporting rifle

[Kibelcjusz]

Beautiful, one of them but fark me they are heavy

[zimmer]

Got the SPANZ brass in 577-450 and 577S plus the rifles.
I used a 45 cal Tony Hawkin's bullit, paper patched. It shot superbly.
Unfortunately I never owned the mould but have recently picked up one on Tardme. It is however a different weight to my original. Have yet to try.

[Jhon]

I use the 50% as a safety measure with small cases and fast powder, I have had light charges barely get the projectile out of the barrel, the last one was a 7mm08 with a cast bullet developing a subsonic load I had a nice group at 50m
the next load was 2 tenths of a grain lower the first shot bounced off the ground halfway to the target, I was using Trail Boss and started with Hogdgons recommended 70% full case and worked backwards, after experimenting quite a bit
50% is safe in .308 size cases, Red dot and 700X are almost as bulky as Trail Boss and make a good substitute, Yes the slower powders can be dangerous if loaded below the recommended minimum start load, though the "Secondary Explosive Event"
as it is called has never been replicated in a lab, but it is still considered real and does happen, the Hogdgon website has reduced loads listed for most popular calibres check them out it is very interesting, If looking for lighter recoil use the fastest powder
listed for the bullet you are shooting as long as the velocity is high enough to expand the bullet or use a lighter bullet.

. The famous 13gn red dot in a 30 cal case "The Load" is no where near 50%. - fast.powder. use 6gn Noble Shotgun 78 in 308. Close equivalent to Red Dot and AS30N. No filler, no issues. Same with 303B. You run into trouble with fast unpredictable pressure spikes above 13gn. Like when your chrono which has been recording 1650fps suddenly shows 2400! And it takes a mallet to lift the bolt. Yikes!. Shot my last fallow with 308, cast 200gn, 6gn Nobel 78. Subsonic.

Your normal rifle powders you mention 50% - I thought optimum was 80% above. Except for a few with published load data for reduced loads..what your referring to yes?

[rambo-6mmrem]

. The famous 13gn red dot in a 30 cal case "The Load" is no where near 50%. - fast.powder. use 6gn Noble Shotgun 78 in 308. Close equivalent to Red Dot and AS30N. No filler, no issues. Same with 303B. You run into trouble with fast unpredictable pressure spikes above 13gn. Like when your chrono which has been recording 1650fps suddenly shows 2400! And it takes a mallet to lift the bolt. Yikes!. Shot my last fallow with 308, cast 200gn, 6gn Nobel 78. Subsonic.

Your normal rifle powders you mention 50% - I thought optimum was 80% above. Except for a few with published load data for reduced loads..what your referring to yes?

for reduced loads personally, I use a powder that is way slower than one typically used for caliber
for example, I have a Remington rolling block in 6.5x55 it's only rated to about 40K psi when new (sammi 6.5x55 is 55k) so no factory ammo for this puppy and it's old and I will keep it well under that no point in pushing your luck

i use adi 2225 normally for magnums and certainly to show for your standard 6.5x55 load
at 45gn with a 140gn bullet, this gives me 90% case fill for good ignition
but keeps pressures down to 27,000psi

it's a good way of doing it because there is simply no way you can fit enough powder in the case to get into trouble with pressures

both I and @akaroa1 have developed loads this way and prefer it to the small charge of pistol/shotgun powder method

although that being said we aren't trying to go subsonic
the 6.5 load above is around 2450fps extremely slow for a 6.5 but certainly not subsonic

[akaroa1]

Yeah I'm using H1000 in the 7x57R and 30-40 US no5 rolling blocks because I can run a 100% full case of relatively slow powder
I get modest velocity with low pressures in what are strong safe vintage rifles.
But they are genuinely rare and there is no need to push them for Lazer flat trajectories when the sights are not capable of hitting a deer beyond 100m

[Tokoroa Cast Projectiles]

Optimum load with slow powders is 90% - 100% you can get away with less using the fast powders like Red Dot and 700X AS30
2206H/H4895 is good for mid range loads with cast loads in the 1600fps to 1900fps my .308 and .303 like 26.0 - 28.0 grains
2207 is good for the 45/70 in Marlins