CCI BR4 vs CCI 400 primer’s

Ive had an interesting time this weekend testing some .223 loads in a new to me Tikka .
When I initially got it I just ran a selection of factory ammo through it and was very happy with the results .
So last week I loaded up some rounds of 77TMK and 80 ELDM using 2206H , new ADI brass and CCI BR4 primers to do some testing .
Only 3 of the first 7 rounds went off and those that did misfire had an indentation on the primer but not very big .
First thing I did was strip the bolt and clean/lubricate , but it wasn't bad at all infact it was very clean .
Went back to see if that helped - first shot misfire .
I went to the cupboard and found some ADI factory 55gn ammo ( thought I'd use that because it is the same brand as the cases I'm loading ) and loaded up 6 rounds .
Perfect ignition overtime .
I read somewhere that the CCI BR4 primers are a bit harder than the CCI 400 , can anyone confirm that ?
I’ve checked case lengths with my comparator set both fired and unfired to make sure that the cases aren't short etc , but so far all I can come up with is the primers are hard and the Tikka's spring must be a bit light .

This morning I primed 5 new ADI cases with CCI 400 primers but no powder or projectiles and just fired them off - 100% success .
I then primed 5 cases with the BR4’s and only 2 of the 5 went off and the indentations on the primers were very weak .

I went and got my Howa out and tried the 3 primer’s that didn’t go off - all 3 fired no problem.

Does anyone have any experience with something like this , how common is it for Tikka’s to have a weak spring , or is it a situation of BR4’s being very hard ( my Howa’s don’t seem to mind them )

Everything else I’ve shot through the rifle , at least 50 rounds of different factory ammo hasn’t been a problem.

Anyone got any experience of this before, or suggestions ?

The BR4 and 450s have thicker and harder cups that are supposed to be more pressure tollerant, hence the 450s being called magnum primers (BR4s are supposedly the same as the 450s just more betterer).
You aren't supposed to use the 400s in semis as they are reportedly prone to slam fires, either match or magnum primers are considered safe to use.

As to why your Tikka has issue with BR4s? No idea but I was about to try a similar test with my T3 223, BR4s vs 400s with 75gr bullets.
I've never had a primer issue with mine but I have never specifiaclly tried the thicker primers either.

BR4s are not hard so much as they have a thicker cup than others.
Back in the days of converting 308 range rifles (no change to firing pin hole in bolt) to 6MM BR for F Class it was quite common to have pierced primers. We all changed to BR4s and the problem disappeared.
The chart below is now quite old but probably still accurate. I have never had any problems with BR primers or any primers for that matter. Are you seating them fully to the bottom of the primer pockets?
Attachment 228065

my zastava used to do it when I first started loading for it...put me off cci primers for a bit UNTIL mate showed me to release bolt while it was in storage...so the fireing pin sits poking out front of bolt face..issue dissapeared and has never misfired since...now CCI go bang just like everything else.

I've had to clean the bolt out on my Tikka else it has started to do the same thing with 450's. Keep it spotless inside. No grease or oil. Maybe a bit of dry lube but that's optional.

I’d say it’s a function of weak firing pin spring and the thicker cups of the BR-4’s. Replace the firing pin and spring assembly.

Usual problem with modern Tikka is a rusty or gummed up firing pin, if you've checked that then next most common is bumping the shoulder to far.

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Originally Posted by sneeze

Usual problem with modern Tikka is a rusty or gummed up firing pin, if you've checked that then next most common is bumping the shoulder to far.

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Yep, had ftf and this was it. Also need to well.

I had this problem with a Kimber. Turned out I was setting the case back too far with the FL sizer. Wound it up until the cases were just slightly firm in the chamber and the problem was solved. It only took a few thou of too much shoulder set back to cause the miss fires.

Just an update on this .

I borrowed a mates bore scope and inspected the inside of the bolt to make sure that there wasn’t any rubbish or damage internally that would be effecting the travel of the pin , it was as clean as a whistle
I loaded up 25 rounds ( 5 different powder charges - 2206H ) with CCI 400 primers - 80gr eldm and shot them on the weekend .
I had zero problems with misfires and the testing was a success - 23.4 gr was the most accurate .
I then tried a couple of rounds with BR4 primers and they failed to fire .
I’ve ordered a new main spring from Gunworks and will see if that fixes the light primer strike on the BR4’s .
It’s an old rifle , so my suspicion is the spring is tired .

I bet you have pushed your shoulder on the brass, too far back, and the friring pin is able to move, the loaded round away from the bolt face for a few thou,
Ive done this a couple times, if new ammo fires, and reloaded ammo doesn’t, and has light strikes, my bet is the brass shoulder.
How old are the primers ?
And to that fact the rifle, new, 50 years,

It’s new Brass , never been fired .
Measured with my Hornady comparator set , the shoulder is fine .

I had a similar issue with my 6x47 Lapua and new brass formed from 6.5x47 Lapua, I had to seat the pills into the lands for the first firing. They have been fine since


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Did you try releasing tension on the bolt spring while not in use?

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Did you try releasing tension on the bolt spring while not in use?

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Yeh ,

I’ve been doing that , since someone mentioned it .
The replacement spring will be here soon and then I’ll try shooting the BR4’s again.
I shot some load development loads again yesterday with the CCI 400’s - 25 rounds in total without a misfire, but the indentations on the primers are still weak .
The new spring is supposed to be a bit stronger so hopefully that will get things sorted .

Sorry I have probably missed it
Why are you using the BR 4 if you have more joy with the 400. Is it lack of components? If you still get issues from BR4 after the new firing pin upgrade you could try Rem BR 7 1/2 or Feds

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Originally Posted by johnd

Sorry I have probably missed it
Why are you using the BR 4 if you have more joy with the 400. Is it lack of components? If you still get issues from BR4 after the new firing pin upgrade you could try Rem BR 7 1/2 or Feds

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Ive got 2000+ BR4’s that I want to use up .

Tahrs onto the issue. Ive had to short chamber guns because of factory ammo/components that was at minimum or below minimum spec.

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Originally Posted by Jaco Goosen

Tahrs onto the issue. Ive had to short chamber guns because of factory ammo/components that was at minimum or below minimum spec.

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I dunno that was a gimme from the start, but new brass is being used and 400,s go bang so IMHO it's either firing pin weak strike or improper seating. A lot of the time people think they have dud primer batch, but that's not very often the true cause. There's a lot of forum threads across the interweb about this issue with 450's (same same) .
He has done a comparison of new and fired cases with no difference noted.
I think some people have tried making the firing pin diameter smaller too to increase the impact force because it's over a smaller total surface, but TAKE THAT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT.
That's probably more in to your knowledge base @Jaco Goosen than mine.

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Originally Posted by johnd

I dunno that was a gimme from the start, but new brass is being used and 400,s go bang so IMHO it's either firing pin weak strike or improper seating. A lot of the time people think they have dud primer batch, but that's not very often the true cause. There's a lot of forum threads across the interweb about this issue with 450's (same same) .
He has done a comparison of new and fired cases with no difference noted.
I think some people have tried making the firing pin diameter smaller too to increase the impact force because it's over a smaller total surface, but TAKE THAT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT.

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Thanks for reading and understanding my posts :thumbsup:

As I’ve tried to explain, the Chamber / Case dimensions aren’t the problem , they have been checked and verified.
The problem seems to be the force that the firing pin is hitting the primer with .
There is zero , I repeat zero ignition problems with the CCI 400 primers ( new or resized brass ) and multiple different factory ammunition offerings.
The BR4’s just seem to be harder to ignite ( note my Howa seems to hit harder and has zero problems with them )
I’m confident that the spring has gone soft over time , this is an old Tikka T3 ( my suspicion is that it is a very early version because it has open sights installed on the barrel ) that has an unknown history .
Everything gets tired after awhile and I’m in no way unhappy with this Rifle because it shoots very well for the money it cost me .
I’ll give an update when the new spring is installed.

Changed the spring to a 10% stronger one from Gun Works today .
Will give it a run this weekend to see if it makes a difference .

https://i.imgur.com/wGC0p2A.jpg

Success :thumbsup:

Problem sorted .

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Originally Posted by Ground Control

Success :thumbsup:

Problem sorted .

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Were you originally trying to see if there was a difference in accuracy/velocity/ES between the 400s and BR4s or were you just wanting trying to develop a load with the BR4s?