Thread: FL sizing without expander ball

Anyone doing this. Been reading about it...getting more consistent neck tension apparently

I think this was only suitable with bushing dies

I take the expander out whilst setting up the dies for proper shoulder bump, so I don't work harden the brass whilst tweaking. But it goes back in once done, because there would be far more neck tension than necessary without it. Seating flat based bullets might also be a pain.

Redding body dies...

Works the neck a lot less.

If you want consistent neck tension, look at turning/reaming, and collet neck dies.

All my reloading now I take complete expander spindle out, run cases through full length die, then put a custom expander mandrel through them that sets neck tension at .002 below bullet diameter....

What he said.

Redding body die, turned necks, expander mandrel and bushing neck dies.

I never use the expander on any dies.

Thanks, good to know...I was struggling to make sense of how they were used

Originally Posted by ebf

Redding body dies...

Works the neck a lot less.

If you want consistent neck tension, look at turning/reaming, and collet neck dies.

Redding body dies "work the neck a lot less" because they don't they touch the neck, just the body and shoulder.

I've never found neck turning to make any difference to accuracy on factory chambers so gave it up a long time ago. Matagouri 's method works well if the reloader hasn't a bushing die.

Ok, so for the pedantic...

The combination of a body die and a collet neck die works the neck the least. It is never expanded. Simply squeezed from the fire formed diameter against a known sized mandrel.

Originally Posted by ebf

Ok, so for the pedantic...

The combination of a body die and a collet neck die works the neck the least. It is never expanded. Simply squeezed from the fire formed diameter against a known sized mandrel.

Well I'm definitely pedantic - case in point, a collet neck die doesn't work the neck any less than a bushing die if the neck wall thickness is equal all round. However, most unturned cases have maybe .0005/.001 variation in neck thickness so theoretically you could claim that the collet die works the neck less even if's only .00025/.0005.

No problem with bushing dies at all... I just don't like expander buttons or mandrels to widen a neck just to squeeze it back down.

Originally Posted by ebf

No problem with bushing dies at all... I just don't like expander buttons or mandrels to widen a neck just to squeeze it back down.

Agreed and usually the cause of excessive run-out. I won't use a standard die for that reason alone and haven't done so for well over 30 years.

Agreed that expander buttons can cause run out as they are pulled through the neck, but I can’t agree that expander mandrels necessarily do the same. I expand my necks with a mandrel then size with a bushing neck die. With turned necks I typically get single figure 5 shot ES. Two nights ago I checked zero and mv on my .284 Win for a hunting trip this weekend and had an ES of 2 over three shots.

We all have our methods, and I’m sure there are other ways to achieve great results, but my way works for me.

I started going down that track, but have just gone back to standard redding dies with expander ball and custom shell holders. Still getting single digit ES with out all the extra stuff. More time for shooting that way

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Agreed that expander buttons can cause run out as they are pulled through the neck, but I can’t agree that expander mandrels necessarily do the same....

Quite agree, I've never had a problem with expander mandrels causing run-out.