Thread: Hang fires

That seat slightly deeper thing is only reason I can put down for the three misfires my mate had in .44magnum....the last one cost him dearly with his arse/ upper legs getting ripped up.... The remaining two rounds I could find that were slightly proud fired no issues in another gun so MAYBE part of your issue but still seems weird they hang fire and not fail to fire...

John, had you adjusted the rifles trigger at all?:

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....82/index2.html

Yikes, Ive never had a hang fire from modern ammo/componenets in my life. Is it possible wit hall the shortages and rush to get product out that quality has slipped?

Originally Posted by Tahr

John, had you adjusted the rifles trigger at all?:

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....82/index2.html

People are using "hang fire" with different definitions. The guy in that thread seems to mean he presses the trigger and then the striker does not fall for a moment. In other words the rifle is not functioning correctly.

Others are calling a cartridge misfire a "hang fire." (Fire hanging indefinately?)

I mean it as in the primer is struck by the firing pin properly, but the primer doesnt go off for a split second. (Snick of a firing pin fall...and then Bang!)


The rifles function correctly but the primer specifically not going off - the powder burns fine when the primer goes off. It is not the case that the primer is going off when it should - and then the powder is not burning properly.


(However I have experienced exactly this with different ammo when the powder was contaminated with too runny lube. The primer would go off - crack! and then the wierdest sound...a whooshing noise combined with the sound of something being pushed up a pipe with a long ascending squeaky note and then puff! some ejecta from the muzzle and the bullet would pop off and land ten feet away on the ground. Like a Warner Bros cartoon. Wierdest thing in the world with a firearm. That sound was literally the bullet being pushed up the bore for two or three long seconds. I did this three times before I stopped, being a person who is unable to learn from his first mistake.)

On a positive note - I found I dont flinch!

What I've always known as "Hang Fire" is the trigger is pulled, the primer is struck, BUT the bang part doesn't happen for 1,5,10 or whatever seconds after the original action, nothing else. Was quite common with some ex Army .303 ammo 70 plus years ago. A few old cullers and probably hunters lost a few teeth and other facial damage due to half open action when the detonation occurred.

Originally Posted by John Duxbury

People are using "hang fire" with different definitions. The guy in that thread seems to mean he presses the trigger and then the striker does not fall for a moment. In other words the rifle is not functioning correctly.

Others are calling a cartridge misfire a "hang fire." (Fire hanging indefinately?)

I mean it as in the primer is struck by the firing pin properly, but the primer doesnt go off for a split second. (Snick of a firing pin fall...and then Bang!)


The rifles function correctly but the primer specifically not going off - the powder burns fine when the primer goes off. It is not the case that the primer is going off when it should - and then the powder is not burning properly.


(However I have experienced exactly this with different ammo when the powder was contaminated with too runny lube. The primer would go off - crack! and then the wierdest sound...a whooshing noise combined with the sound of something being pushed up a pipe with a long ascending squeaky note and then puff! some ejecta from the muzzle and the bullet would pop off and land ten feet away on the ground. Like a Warner Bros cartoon. Wierdest thing in the world with a firearm. That sound was literally the bullet being pushed up the bore for two or three long seconds. I did this three times before I stopped, being a person who is unable to learn from his first mistake.)

On a positive note - I found I dont flinch!

Ok then.so you have told us all loudly....we not understanding what is going on....so what do YOU think is going on??? So we can all agree with you and you can solve the issue and we can praise you for being so cleaver!!!!? The suggestion to try those primers in another rifle has merit..so does loading then in your 7mm mag without powder or projectile and seeing if you can duplicate issue. Both will eliminate a possibility and both will tell you more. Maybe seat three deep and three shallow and try that????

Umm, I assume you have:

Disassembled the bolt, cleaned it and the firing pin then "lightly" oiled and reassembled.

Checked take down screw is not touching fireing pin at rear of action.
Checked "bump" / head space

Greetings all,
This thread has ambled on for some time and it appears that the most likely culprit is mentioned in the second post. Excess headspace with the belted handloads. Simply measuring the length to the shoulder on a fired case and that of a sized case with a Hornady comparator may reveal the problem. Belted cases need careful sizing to prevent headspace issues. Additionally check the firing pin protrusion as it is adjustable on some of these old Sako rifles.
GPM.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings all,
This thread has ambled on for some time and it appears that the most likely culprit is mentioned in the second post. Excess headspace with the belted handloads. Simply measuring the length to the shoulder on a fired case and that of a sized case with a Hornady comparator may reveal the problem. Belted cases need careful sizing to prevent headspace issues. Additionally check the firing pin protrusion as it is adjustable on some of these old Sako rifles.
GPM.

That's interestin

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Ok then.so you have told us all loudly....we not understanding what is going on....so what do YOU think is going on??? So we can all agree with you and you can solve the issue and we can praise you for being so cleaver!!!!? The suggestion to try those primers in another rifle has merit..so does loading then in your 7mm mag without powder or projectile and seeing if you can duplicate issue. Both will eliminate a possibility and both will tell you more. Maybe seat three deep and three shallow and try that????

Well, I dont know, that why I posted about it!

If the primer is struck when the trigger is pressed, then it cant be the rifle. I know its not headspace already.

My hypothosis at the moment is that this brass has deep pockets, and possibly this mimics the same thing as a headspace issue, as the primer is not seated fully down and moves forward under firing pin impact. I was unaware that this would create a hang fire, I thought that might result in a straight out misfire if it was anything, but perhaps I am wrong.

I have had two range sessions with the rifle now, with two hang fires the first time, and one on the second - however thinking about it, I am pretty sure the one on the second session was a left over from the first batch of reloads, so I am going with primers not being fully seated all the way down....I will just have to shoot some more.

I went and bought some new Winchester primers anyway but havnt used them yet.

Originally Posted by Oldbloke

Umm, I assume you have:

Disassembled the bolt, cleaned it and the firing pin then "lightly" oiled and reassembled.

Checked take down screw is not touching fireing pin at rear of action.
Checked "bump" / head space

No, I havnt - the rifle is not misfiring, its going off when it should. Its the ammo not going off after the rifle has functioned. A hang fire.
I have checked the headspace though - I am headspacing on the shoulder not the belt - but as above I believe it might be mimicking a headspace issue with the primer seating. Maybe...

Originally Posted by John Duxbury

No, I havnt - the rifle is not misfiring, its going off when it should. Its the ammo not going off after the rifle has functioned. A hang fire.
I have checked the headspace though - I am headspacing on the shoulder not the belt - but as above I believe it might be mimicking a headspace issue with the primer seating. Maybe...

Yes, I know the difference between a hang fire and a misfire. What I'm saying is a light/weak strike maybe causing your hang fires or that combined with a primer that is less than perfect.

Too much head space, and weak firing pin strike can give the same result. Same for poorly seated primers.

Therefore if you think it's possible accessive headspace may be an issue then you need to understand that a weak strike could also be the cause. Hence why I asked.

All my rifles only take about 3 minutes to dismantle enough to wash/rinse them out.

Checking for shiny spots on screws not much longer.

Originally Posted by Oldbloke

Yes, I know the difference between a hang fire and a misfire. What I'm saying is a light/weak strike maybe causing your hang fires or that combined with a primer that is less than perfect.

Too much head space, and weak firing pin strike can give the same result. Same for poorly seated primers.

Therefore if you think it's possible accessive headspace may be an issue then you need to understand that a weak strike could also be the cause. Hence why I asked.

All my rifles only take about 3 minutes to dismantle enough to wash/rinse them out.

Checking for shiny spots on screws not much longer.

I understand what you have been saying, I was only being descriptive. I have so far discounted a light primer strike, excessive headspace, powder issues. I am left with deeper primer pockets than I am used to, and suspect the primer seating. Coupled with a personal limit in analysis due to not realising that a hang fire could occur for any of these events, having only experience outright misfires. This has been news to me, learnt from this thread. I have never had one (except for that one packet of Pakistani .303) since 1978. Only outright misfires.

All good.
Pls report back when you get sorted.

It will be your rifle. It's heard of your plans to shoot puny 120grs through it that Are meant for kids guns like 7/08 and is showing its displeasure.

Also Oscar would have still got a stag with those hang fires and can't work out what you are worried about..