Many using the new Labradar - how are they finding it - any troubles to be concerned about.
Just seen one at Serious Shooters in jafaland for under $995 early in the week thinking about moving up from my magnetospeed
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Many using the new Labradar - how are they finding it - any troubles to be concerned about.
Just seen one at Serious Shooters in jafaland for under $995 early in the week thinking about moving up from my magnetospeed
A mate has just bought one, hopefully have a play with it next week
They are the shizzle.
Accurate and easy to use. Get the airgun trigger if you have a suppressor and a $20 usb battery pack from TM 5V 1 A.
The SD card feature is also very good, heaps of data and you could work out BC on the small stuff like 22lr with the track reports...
Attachment 73199Attachment 73200Attachment 73201
Had mine out twice. Mostly no issues thus far. Only one was a false trigger from another shooter, but a sensitivity change fixed that.
The data stored on the SD card is a great feature, and the simplicity of it's use is great.
It successfully tracked a 6.5mm boat tail projectile to 85 meters for every shot in a 6 shot string, and allowed me to verify the BC of the bullet. I'll have to get out the Accubond LR projectiles and get their real BC.
Having had the Labradar out for the first time yesterday I thought I’d also post a few comments on some aspects of the Labradar set-up, use, and results - a part review and hopefully also a part exchange of ideas with forum members who also have one.
Set-up
Shooting was with a 6.5x47 using Berger 140gr Target Hybrids that I had set aside for test purposes such as this. With these bullets the Labradar has a 5mm diameter tail surface to work off. Shooting comprised 8 strings of 6 shots each with powder charge being incremented in 0.3gr steps.
I used Labradar’s orange stand. As an alternative to trying to find a suitable short tripod this is worth the extra NZ$70 IMO as it comes with a solid metal ball head with quick-release plate, and by design allows for placing the chronograph in what the manufacturer feels to be good position for reliable triggering. The only minor gripe I have over this mounting option is that the hole drilled in the centre of the plate to mount the adjustable head has been drilled oversized when it could just have easily been the correct diameter for a more secure attachment.
In expectation of possible problems with aiming the radar beam (that radiates out normal to the rear face) I glued a short length of 4mm brass tube into the aiming V-slot on the top of the housing, lined the target up through the tube, and just left it without further adjustments.
The rifle runs a T2 brake. I had the Labradar positioned in close to the barrel and behind the blast zone – far enough back to be about level with the front of the scope. In this position the barrel didn’t appear to interfere with the radar’s operation. There was also the advantage of then being able to easily reach the control buttons when shooting prone. That said the Labradar can be set to remain armed and ready to record for up to 5 minutes between shots – so in reality there is probably no reason to need to touch it during a string.
I had the Labradar set up for audio triggering with a trigger level left at the default setting of 1 (most sensitive), and the unit triggered reliably for all shots, so at the moment I’m not sure what the online concerns have been about using the Labradar with braked barrels. The only disadvantage I can see is that with this offset from the muzzle all the velocity readings will be at distances out by half a metres or so. Next trip out I’ll try having the unit level with the muzzle and so forward of the brake’s exhaust and see if the triggering remains as reliable. I didn’t try the Doppler triggering feature.
6x AA NiMH rechargeables were fitted as an alternative to the 5V USB power packs that other forum members have been using. At the rated 800mA current consumption I expected 3 hours of service, and that is what I got.
For the first trip out a SD card wasn’t fitted. This was a mistake. Though there appears ample internal storage capacity without a card, the data can’t be accessed for .csv download from the internal memory. On returning home I then had to scroll through the shot history and manually copy the velocity figures into a spreadsheet.
Menu settings
Intuitive, and nicely done via the buttons. The user manual is good too.
The Labradar allows the user to set 5 distances at which velocity measurements will be taken and recorded for each shot. The software then uses these figures to extrapolate back to estimate the muzzle velocity. Having gathered that a 100m reading would be asking a bit much from the radar for 6.5mm boattail bullets, I set the distances for velocity measurement to be taken at 10metres, 20m, 40m, 60m, and 80metres.
The Labradar recorded ALL velocities at 10, 20 and 40 metres. It missed taking readings for 9 out of 48 shots at 80 metres, and readings at both 60 and 80 metres for a further 2 shots. As I didn’t tinker with the aiming once set I can’t tell whether this could have been improved upon by refining the orientation of the unit, or if this is simply representative performance for this bullet.
Once uploaded into a spreadsheet the velocity data for each shot was graphed to look for measuring anomalies. For 10metres through to 40 metres the data closely approximated a straight line surprisingly well for all 48 shots (over a 30 metre distance any curvature in the velocity decay is going to be next to impossible to pick up). At 60metres - and more so for 80metres - there is some deviation in some of the shots indicating that the quality of the measurements does deteriorate. I suspect there is a cut-off point set in software based around the received SNR where potentially inaccurate readings are not displayed. The figures that were displayed did not deviate from the figure predicted by the trendline set up from the shorter-distance measurements by more than 5-6 ft/sec. Regardless the extrapolation to estimate the muzzle velocity will be heavily weighted on the velocity measurements at the shorter distances, and these all appeared solid. In summary I didn’t observe any results that would raise questions about the claimed 0.1% accuracy.
Calculating BC from the data
The idea here is that the decay in velocity over the five distances at which measurements are taken can be compared against those predicted using a trajectory simulator for the same muzzle velocity while the ballistic coefficient is tweaked until the downrange velocities all match. The question was whether the data from the Labradar was going to be consistent enough to get a sufficient quality of match to result in usable corrections to published BCs that could be applied at long range.
For bullets where the G7 BC=0.3 and at a MV of 2800 ft/sec, an error of 1ft/sec in the measured velocity at 80 metres from the Labradar will throw the estimated G7 BC out by roughly 0.002, this being the precision I was hoping could be achieved.
Individual shot measurement error can be removed by averaging recorded velocities over as many shots as possible with a given bullet - regardless of whether these are all the same load and MV. I averaged the available velocity readings for all 48 shots in the 8 strings and ended up with an average muzzle velocity of 2837.3 ft/sec. Similarly the velocities measured by the Labradar at distances of 10m, 20m, 40m, 60m, and 80metres were also all averaged. The result was a smoothed decay in average bullet velocity that was then compared to a JBM online trajectory simulation set up with the same conditions under which the chronograph was used and starting with the same muzzle velocity.
The published G7 BC for the Target Hybrid is 0.311. With BC=0.303 loaded into the JBM simulator all the predicted downrange velocities ran high when compared to the averaged Labradar velocities. With the BC lowered to 0.300 they all swung lower than the Labradar figures, leaving 0.302 as the estimated G7 BC and known it would seem pretty damned precisely :D:D.
Overall
Has absolutely met my expectations so far. It has the obvious advantages over the alternatives - easily portable, no screens to set-up, no POI changes etc. plus is able to provide some pretty interesting downloadable data. I need to cross-check it against some drop data before pronouncing on the overall accuracy but I haven’t seen anything that would raise concerns so far.
@Puffin
Great review :thumbsup:
+1 Better than I could have done.
Have used mine heaps while I was home and it was apart from one fuckup of my own, perfect. I forgot to change from rifle to handgun on the speed. And had a wee crowd giving me shut as to what an expensive box it was until I sorted my mistake[emoji28]
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Thanks guys been a great help
so you recommend a airgun trigger for when using a suppressor, so it wouldn't work without.
No. Mine works fine without one but the airgun trigger will aid where you can place the unit in relation to your position.
I have decided to get one anyway even tho the unit has worked perfectly without it when using suppressors on centerfires.
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I'm very interested in how local shooters have got on with estimating ballistic coefficients from Labradar data. Please let us know how successful this has been for you with some details! There are already quite a number of reports online from overseas on this. The results of most have a large amount of uncertainty in the estimated BC - often too much to provide a useful refinement to the published figures for long range use when the number of shots being used to make these estimations has been small.
This report is different:
https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1608/1608.06500.pdf
There is some information for Labradar users on how the equipment works and detail on the observed increasing error with distance. The improvement with increasing shot sample size for estimating BC is quantified.
For interested buyers:
https://buymylabradar.com/products/labradar
Thanks Mrs Google :thumbsup:
Note: US$ price
Had mine out a few times now. I didnt get the external trigger and all suppressed rifles functioned well apart 2 shots thats triggered but failed to read from the 85gr tsx at 3400fps. May have been my set up. The braked 338 took a little trial and error to get right, the first couple of shots turned the labradar off. Moving it back 250mm ish and away a bit and it was fine. The eneloop pro AA batts clocked up 150 shots and were still showing good life but were flat when i checked this morning. It may have been bumped on through the bag?. Its a perfect fit in an old laptop bag I had here with room in the top pocket for the plate, spare batts etc.
Great bit of gear.
With all these flash labradar being brought hopefully a cheap magneto speed will come up for sale soon :thumbsup:
How are these things meant to be set up? They used one at the chrono station for the ipsc nationals and the readings on the open guns were all over the fucking show! By as much as 200 fps. There are a few unhappy shooters who have been declared as shooting minor power factor now because of one or 2 realy erratic readings.
Crips, I thought this was about a lab pointing at the ducks coming in range to shoot!!. Labradar , what will they think of next.
Whoever was running it may have screwed up or velocities shooters thought they had are way off.
The labradar is simple and accurate. It doesn't lie. All my rifle velocities are within a few fps to when I had a V3.
Pistol velocities are where load data say they should be.
But you can get inconsistent velocity readings if you do not input the correct projectile weight and that's assuming they had it in handgun mode in the first place.
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Theres no way they were off by as much as the machine said. I have no doubt that the labradar is the bees knees, i just think it may have been set up wrong? It was failing to read alot of shots too. The guy was basicaly standing behind the radar and it was about a foot to his left pointing down range. I hvnt heard of any other divisions having issues so we are all assuming the comp on the open guns are putting it off. There was a roof over the shooter as well, not sure if that makes a difference.
I got a reading of 1400fps, 1415, 1250, and 1340 and a bunch of shots that didnt register. This was a common theme with all the open guys. I know that 10 grains of 3n38 should put me at that 1400+ mark so it read correctly and then had major swings in velocity. I feel for the guys that came in with a 159.? power factor, there were a couple in my squad alone.
I would say your right. Someone has mentioned in this thread about the radar not working properly with a brake until he shifted it.
I haven't used a brake over mine so don't know what can go wrong.
It is activated by sound so possibly the roof combined with the brake is giving erroneous feedback effecting the readings.
Especially when you say only open shooters are having issues.
The should reshoot it for all you open guys under a different setup.
You would think they would notice there is an issue and try and sort it?
I think it is great they are using a labradar for velocity testing but maybe they shouldn't have used one until they are very familiar with it and also have a backup optical chrony to confirm irregular results.
It is screwing up the competition for people after all.
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Just in case you needed another reason to buy a labradar:
Attachment 89406
Download the new firmware v1.2.0 by following the link below. The latest firmware will enable the Bluetooth connectivity on you LabRadar device.
Android App is avilable on Google Play, Apple iOS will be available on the App Store within the next few days!
Directions for Labradar App Download/Connectivitiy
1. Go to LabRadar - My Personal Radar - Download,
2. Select: Labradar Firmware v1.2.0 (EN) Mobile App Ready.
3. Copy the FWA and FWB files to a SD card (or use the USB cable method), Do not put the files in any folder.
4. Insert the SD card in your Labradar and turn it on.
5. On your Android Device, make sure your location service is enable.
6. Download the Labradar App from Google play to your device.
7. Don't pair your Bluetooth device to the Labradar, in order to use the app just connect to your Labradar from within the mobile app.
8.Questions or comments about the App please email us at Appsupport@mylabradar.com
If you need assistance updating your firmware you can follow the video instructions from the YouTube video posted below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbSjwZnGS24&t=1s
Download link: download
Got the app, done the download.
Radar say the firmware is installed but phone won't pair with radar.
Comes up as blue radios 3B251A
Wont work for some reason?
Keep getting comms error.
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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d6a1d8451c.jpg
That’s different aye. Mine connects, named labradar then a number.
That was easy. The apps is a bit clunky but it will be much easier to review data at the range.
I normally don't have too many issues with this kind of thing but this has got me fucked!!
Sorted. Mine is all go now. [emoji106]
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Sorted! Thanks @R93
IOS version is in app store, Iv got it up and running though had to delete the first and reload, the first atempt had some headers all jumbled up.
Well aren't you just a tech whizz[emoji4]
Following the instructions posted is what buggered me up.
Found some more on the Web and sorted it first go.
Although I will admit to being a bit dumb when it came to one part of the process.
Helped heaps when I found the sd card I had bought for the unit in one of my kids rooms. One I was trying to use must have been faulty even tho I cleared it.
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You would be right. [emoji106]
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got the app running. in the 5 min of having a quick look it would read in m/s and ive set it to fps on the radar.
didnt see an easy way to adjust it in the app
Any help?
Just had a play with the App.
It kept dropping out and I had to turn the radar off and on to upload the data most of the time. Otherwise it's OK.
Be good if you could ID the caliber etc.
Pic is of 22 winchester bulk pack thru my wee mkiv Ruger tactical https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0468879fce.jpg
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You should be able to reconnect by swiping right and taging devices from the app.
Its a little bit buggy and I dont find it that intuitive really, took me a while to figure out how to start a new string :angry: but then Im old old with fat fingers.
Yeah some labeling ability to identify each string would be good but a note book and pencil is no real hardship.