Thread: Primer failure rate.

This was an interesting exercise. I know I was full FAL with the 223 and thought i was shoulder bumping the 308. However, I must have done the same as i know i was struggling to get a consistent measurement.

Odd to think that the lee die set would push a shoulder back so far back that it creates un-usable rounds.

Is there a good YouTube tutorial which shows how to get a reliable, consistent 2thou bump?
@Oldbloke your note is great, but how do a set the die up to be 0.000mm baseline before adjusting the die?

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Any die will do it, they just require correct set up. One thing that can confuse the issue is brass springback, you measure one bit and the next bit comes out different. It's due to the brass anneal being different piece to piece, and happens wether you anneal or not (I don't) and even in the same batch.

You need to anneal the neck AND the shoulder for consistent headspace....any full length die should be capable of achieving that. I full length size every time and check each round in the chamber with the bolt unloaded. I also made a headspace comparator to fit calipers to determine the fire formed length to compare the resized length...they are readily available from Hornady https://www.hornady.com/headspace-bushings#!/

Cheers mate.

No youtube channels that I know off. I normally included die set up in my reloading classes I hosted.

Dont do training much these days as most people just ask on facebook.

Originally Posted by Rn-85

This was an interesting exercise. I know I was full FAL with the 223 and thought i was shoulder bumping the 308. However, I must have done the same as i know i was struggling to get a consistent measurement.

Odd to think that the lee die set would push a shoulder back so far back that it creates un-usable rounds.

Is there a good YouTube tutorial which shows how to get a reliable, consistent 2thou bump?
@Oldbloke your note is great, but how do a set the die up to be 0.000mm baseline before adjusting the die?

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A fired case from that rifle that rechambers and bolt closes easily should be your baseline. Or is my practice anyway.


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A good reloading manual will have a detailed section on this. If you can't wait to find one, the internet is your friend as most of them are in Ebook form.

Quick version... Screw fls die down until it hits shell holder then back it off by a full turn..... Run case through rifle to try fit...if too tight go down a smidge,if still loose go up another smidge....when your happy,rounds feeding ok with SLIGHT resistance only. Lock the die ring in place....and leave the plurry thing alone forever more.... Job done without single measurement taken.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Quick version... Screw fls die down until it hits shell holder then back it off by a full turn..... Run case through rifle to try fit...if too tight go down a smidge,if still loose go up another smidge....when your happy,rounds feeding ok with SLIGHT resistance only. Lock the die ring in place....and leave the plurry thing alone forever more.... Job done without single measurement taken.

Okay, but if you do this 4 or 5 times, wouldnt you be overworking the brass and need to anneal it again?

Also once you go too far, you need to fire the brass to push it out again.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Quick version... Screw fls die down until it hits shell holder then back it off by a full turn..... Run case through rifle to try fit...if too tight go down a smidge,if still loose go up another smidge....when your happy,rounds feeding ok with SLIGHT resistance only. Lock the die ring in place....and leave the plurry thing alone forever more.... Job done without single measurement taken.

Only until you burn out your throat .

Originally Posted by Rn-85

Okay, but if you do this 4 or 5 times, wouldnt you be overworking the brass and need to anneal it again?

Also once you go too far, you need to fire the brass to push it out again.

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No and no.... No more than shooting it off four times and no worse,arguably larger than would have been if you did nothing.

Originally Posted by TeRei

Only until you burn out your throat .

That's a seater adjustment issue lol.... And/ or a LOT of rounds down barrel time issue.

Originally Posted by Rn-85

This was an interesting exercise. I know I was full FAL with the 223 and thought i was shoulder bumping the 308. However, I must have done the same as i know i was struggling to get a consistent measurement.

Odd to think that the lee die set would push a shoulder back so far back that it creates un-usable rounds.

Is there a good YouTube tutorial which shows how to get a reliable, consistent 2thou bump?
@Oldbloke your note is great, but how do a set the die up to be 0.000mm baseline before adjusting the die?

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What Shell holder are you using? Not all shell holders are created equal and the die manufacturer expects you to use their shell holder, just like they did when they designed the dies.

https://youtu.be/ZgKbSJ5PLwI
This guy uses the same press and his method seems to make sense to me.
I could keep the fired round and the fl resized cases from the previous post as reference.
@Micky Duck doing it 4 or 5 times, i meant it as you'd be constantly adjusting the die and case. So consistently working the brass and hardening it before getting it to the right bump distance. That would mean the brass will be harder to reshape and then spring back each adjustment of the resizing die and you'd need to over sizing the die. This would mean the 2nd piece of brass sized will be vastly different than the 1st piece sized as it hasn't been as worked.

Does that make sense?

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No expert but I've tried a few different things.
I used the upside down pistol case idea for a while and it actually works. But it can be a bit fiddly. (Still do same but with a bit of brass my SIL spun up on his lathe for me.) But I think it's good enough for the average reloader/hunter. Dedicated target shooters will differ. Obviously the proper gear will do a better, more consistant job.

Regarding spring back, I'm sure this is a problem I had because I never used to anneal my cases. I do it now on every second loading and I also ensure I lube the inside of the neck. I'm sure both of these strategies have helped. I can't get the precision some claim to get. But if I can achieve 0.002" to 0.005" I'm happy. Mixing brands probably doesnt help me.

It depends how often you pull the trigger, but brass isnt that expensive.

P.S.: Only FLS these days, just simpler.
P.S. The note i posted earlier was just to help with estimating how much to adjust the die.
P.S. Recent experience tells me you should get reliable ignition with 0.009" head space. Far from ideal for case life tho.
P.S. Yep, feeler guages do help.

Erik is worth watching. He explains SAAMI and why new brass can be so short that you will have upto perhaps 0.012" head space. (New ammo) Surprised me.

https://youtu.be/vYzXJGKyxt0?si=BUqezfTv1eEtFxfv