Thread: Primer failure rate.

Originally Posted by TeRei

Only until you burn out your throat .

Nah the throat is further forward.....the chamber does not erode, and remains the same for the life of the barrel....lets not confuse things for the poor bugger trying to understand reloading

Originally Posted by Oldbloke

No expert but I've tried a few different things.
I used the upside down pistol case idea for a while and it actually works. But it can be a bit fiddly. (Still do same but with a bit of brass my SIL spun up on his lathe for me.) But I think it's good enough for the average reloader/hunter. Dedicated target shooters will differ. Obviously the proper gear will do a better, more consistant job.

Regarding spring back, I'm sure this is a problem I had because I never used to anneal my cases. I do it now on every second loading and I also ensure I lube the inside of the neck. I'm sure both of these strategies have helped. I can't get the precision some claim to get. But if I can achieve 0.002" to 0.005" I'm happy. Mixing brands probably doesnt help me.

It depends how often you pull the trigger, but brass isnt that expensive.

P.S.: Only FLS these days, just simpler.
P.S. The note i posted earlier was just to help with estimating how much to adjust the die.
P.S. Recent experience tells me you should get reliable ignition with 0.009" head space. Far from ideal for case life tho.
P.S. Yep, feeler guages do help.

Seems like you are not annealing enough of the shoulder if you cannot get within 0.0005" (that is half a thou) consistently. Have a look at a new Lapua case and you will see how low the annealing is on the last anneal they do before packaging for sale.....!

What I have found sometimes is the factory dies need the base machining maybe up to 0.020" in order to get a full length resize particularly in a competition chamber.....what is your method of annealing....?

The comparator tool the fella in the video is using is exactly what you need.

You asked how does one set the die back to 0.000"?

Thats easy - follow these steps.

1. Measure several cases that has been fired in your rifle.
2. Calculate the average length. This will be your 0.000"

While sizing you'll notice your cases will get taller(0.012" for example.)

Wind your die in and size, measure, repeat.

As some stage you'll notice (and feel) that the cases are starting to go shorter(pushing the shoulder back).

Once you reached - 0.002 to - 0.003 test the case in your chamber. Try NOT to go over - 0.004

Originally Posted by Rn-85

https://youtu.be/ZgKbSJ5PLwI
This guy uses the same press and his method seems to make sense to me.
I could keep the fired round and the fl resized cases from the previous post as reference.
@Micky Duck doing it 4 or 5 times, i meant it as you'd be constantly adjusting the die and case. So consistently working the brass and hardening it before getting it to the right bump distance. That would mean the brass will be harder to reshape and then spring back each adjustment of the resizing die and you'd need to over sizing the die. This would mean the 2nd piece of brass sized will be vastly different than the 1st piece sized as it hasn't been as worked.

Does that make sense?

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STOP over. Thinking it.

Originally Posted by Rn-85

https://youtu.be/ZgKbSJ5PLwI
This guy uses the same press and his method seems to make sense to me.
I could keep the fired round and the fl resized cases from the previous post as reference.
@Micky Duck doing it 4 or 5 times, i meant it as you'd be constantly adjusting the die and case. So consistently working the brass and hardening it before getting it to the right bump distance. That would mean the brass will be harder to reshape and then spring back each adjustment of the resizing die and you'd need to over sizing the die. This would mean the 2nd piece of brass sized will be vastly different than the 1st piece sized as it hasn't been as worked.

Does that make sense?

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Nope....you are working brass for sure,but only a little bitty bit,and only on single case till you have die set up. So it took your four tootoos until you were happy...case has less stress than four times loaded n fired...what's this annealing business???? Who suddenly decided it must be done every load???

Originally Posted by Longranger

Seems like you are not annealing enough of the shoulder if you cannot get within 0.0005" (that is half a thou) consistently. Have a look at a new Lapua case and you will see how low the annealing is on the last anneal they do before packaging for sale.....!

What I have found sometimes is the factory dies need the base machining maybe up to 0.020" in order to get a full length resize particularly in a competition chamber.....what is your method of annealing....?

I think your correct.
Ive had a suspicion for some time that the shoulder may not be getting hot enough.
I just use a gas torch in the dark. I rotate using a "holder" and count. But only the neck gets a bit of red glow. Shoulder only turns blueish. So reckon I need to give them another second or two.
I went out and measured about 30 223 and some 30.06 cases that had been annealed and FLS'd. Maximum variation was 0.003".
Next time I anneal Ill play with getting the shoulder hotter. But that will likely be some time now.

Eric reckons its actually fairly difficult to ruin brass.

https://youtu.be/EUVdvD6i1CQ?si=vmCyqQ-bIDxrhJ_E

Eric is right

Originally Posted by Oldbloke

I think your correct.
Ive had a suspicion for some time that the shoulder may not be getting hot enough.
I just use a gas torch in the dark. I rotate using a "holder" and count. But only the neck gets a bit of red glow. Shoulder only turns blueish. So reckon I need to give them another second or two.
I went out and measured about 30 223 and some 30.06 cases that had been annealed and FLS'd. Maximum variation was 0.003".
Next time I anneal Ill play with getting the shoulder hotter. But that will likely be some time now.

Eric reckons its actually fairly difficult to ruin brass.

https://youtu.be/EUVdvD6i1CQ?si=vmCyqQ-bIDxrhJ_E

I first began with old 303 in a lathe and an oxy-acetylene torch....they certainly glowed in the dark, but I now have a two burner timed annealer which can do 500 per hour. They are right you can really only ruin a case if it melts.

You can spin them in an electric drill in a flame, but be sure to direct the flame to the base of the shoulder and the heat will migrate to the thinner neck material very quickly. You need to replicate what Lapua do......it is a bit difficult to see but the heat mark is quite a way done the case below the shoulder,,,,https://reloadingdirect.co.nz/produc...Qi3DWPFAvxnsKU

Originally Posted by Longranger

I first began with old 303 in a lathe and an oxy-acetylene torch....they certainly glowed in the dark, but I now have a two burner timed annealer which can do 500 per hour. They are right you can really only ruin a case if it melts.

You can spin them in an electric drill in a flame, but be sure to direct the flame to the base of the shoulder and the heat will migrate to the thinner neck material very quickly. You need to replicate what Lapua do......it is a bit difficult to see but the heat mark is quite a way done the case below the shoulder,,,,https://reloadingdirect.co.nz/produc...Qi3DWPFAvxnsKU

@Longranger

Thx

Regarding lapua cases. I've noticed ADI are much the same. Proof that I'm under cooking them.

Just revisiting this as i pulled the faulty round today and prior to sticking it into my cases to prep I though i should ask how to reset it to push the shoulder out so it's usable.

Will another run through the press pull the shoulder forward?

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Had this problem with some rounds inherited & loaded for his rifle.
Too long wouldn't chamber, so at your own risk as it's loaded ammo. Have a Redding body die, doesn't touch the neck can bump the shoulder & resize the case (lube required). Quick solution

But would that pull the shoulder forward?

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Originally Posted by mark_k I had similar issues with a batch of fiochhi large rifle primers about 3 years ago, the packet had a large red band across it. I bought some more fiochhi maube 18 months ago and packet is now predominantly black and I've never had a miss fire, same rifle, same brass.

Still got them, haven't tried them, only use them shooting paper so doesn't matter. The 308 has become a safe queen as got the the same 223 you have Many Thanks, cos u gave them to me.

What I normally do in a situation where the shoulders have been pushed back to far is to run the case over an expander about 0.5mm larger in diameter. Then size the case again.

Stopping about 1mm above the shoulder to create a false shoulder. Load and shoot.

G'day,

I have had multiple misfires using Fiocchi ammunition [.222 Rem] in one of my old Anschutz 1532 rifles and occasional misfires in my relatively new Weihrauch 60J rifle. The headspace has been checked in the Anschutz and is within specification. The HW60J is about 6 years old and has not had great use. My other Anschutz 1532 fires the Fiocchi without any issues. Firing pin protrusion in the misfiring Anschutz is within specification and it has a new spring in the bolt also. I did wonder about the primers being a little hard??? Fiocchi is apparently made to conform to SAAMI standards. I did measure Fiocchi casing and found greater variation in dimensions of the casings than with Remington cases. The misfired rounds have always fired the second time around after waiting a minute or so. I now use Federal ammunition in the Anschutz without any misfire problems.

Jim