Thread: Reality!

I am really pleased this stuff is starting to come forward. That some of the BS around LR is being questioned with reasonable facts.

Another in the line up of Eric Cortina, Backfire etc

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1453533423439396

Excellent to the point and easily understood thanks for sharing

Not confident shooting long range in the field so I just get closer. I reckon there must be a lot of wounded animals out there.

Originally Posted by whanahuia

I am really pleased this stuff is starting to come forward. That some of the BS around LR is being questioned with reasonable facts.

Another in the line up of Eric Cortina, Backfire etc

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1453533423439396

Some of us don't do facebook, what does it say?

Originally Posted by 257weatherby

Some of us don't do facebook, what does it say?

if you click on the link you can still watch the video.

Originally Posted by 257weatherby

Some of us don't do facebook, what does it say?

Basically just going through a scenario using the equivalent of Advanced Balistics WEZ.

If you don't know what WEZ is, basically it shows people the suck at wind reading and is why they miss targets.
This is a better explanation https://precisionrifleblog.com/categ...oes-it-matter/

Originally Posted by Beetroot

Basically just going through a scenario using the equivalent of Advanced Balistics WEZ.

If you don't know what WEZ is, basically it shows people the suck at wind reading and is why they miss targets.
This is a better explanation https://precisionrifleblog.com/categ...oes-it-matter/

Thanks for that, I have a spot I can practice LR and there is almost always a cross wind of changeable angle and pressure. The most important skill I have developed to avoid misery for a badly shot animal is ...... get closer. I know what a little misread on the wind can do at 300yd. Fucked if I know how half the people on this forum (and other forums) run about the place shooting all their deer at half a kilometer or more. Maybe I'm just a shit shot with a ballistically challenged peashooter.

Watched the clip. A wee bit "click baity" for my liking, sorta over simplified. I don't recall my longest shot on game but I know I've passed up several memorable animals at 360M and less. I do shoot a lot at 500 and 600 on the range, and see a lot of shots taken by hunting rifles at those ranges.

Generally with modern rifles and rangefinders a hit on 10" at these 500/600 ranges should be well above 75%, and maybe 90 ish. But that's reliant on several factors, the precision of the zero being a huge one. Next I reckon is shooter discipline and practise, too many long range hunters lack the discipline to get everything in their favour to take a shot . . . My favorite bug bear I see every range session is natural point of aim, cripes if guys are not getting this right on a nice grassy level mound, they haven't a hope on the hill with its complexities - get this wrong and even 200 is a long shot. Finally environmental factors, mainly wind, are much more difficult when shooting over gullies etc.

My point is that to shoot ethically at game at these ranges requires a lot more thinking and practise in addition to just investment in gear and skiting about 100M 3 shot groups.

Originally Posted by Tentman

Watched the clip. A wee bit "click baity" for my liking, sorta over simplified. I don't recall my longest shot on game but I know I've passed up several memorable animals at 360M and less. I do shoot a lot at 500 and 600 on the range, and see a lot of shots taken by hunting rifles at those ranges.

Generally with modern rifles and rangefinders a hit on 10" at these 500/600 ranges should be well above 75%, and maybe 90 ish. But that's reliant on several factors, the precision of the zero being a huge one. Next I reckon is shooter discipline and practise, too many long range hunters lack the discipline to get everything in their favour to take a shot . . . My favorite bug bear I see every range session is natural point of aim, cripes if guys are not getting this right on a nice grassy level mound, they haven't a hope on the hill with its complexities - get this wrong and even 200 is a long shot. Finally environmental factors, mainly wind, are much more difficult when shooting over gullies etc.

My point is that to shoot ethically at game at these ranges requires a lot more thinking and practise in addition to just investment in gear and skiting about 100M 3 shot groups.

Overall it's good to see this being talked about, even if it's a bit late. Part of the problem is we have seen a decade or more of promoting LR for a number of reasons, with little to no recognition of the downsides, difficulties or limits.

I mean take the simple info that a truely 1moa capable rifle under perfect conditions has used up over half its impact diameter on a 10 inch disk at 500. And as we are seeing, there are few true moa rifles about. A 1.5 moa rifle has only 2.5 inches of leeway at that range.

And I suspect that many would not consider 500 LR.

The original "Green Lungs" video from early proponents of LR was a very stark warning to me. Yet it was ignored largely.

From the blog post linked above:
Wind calls: 31% of improvement (halving margin of error to 2mph+/-)
Better ranging: 17%.

The things most shooters focus on: tighter groups, hotter loads, consistent MV, all add up to 9% of improvement in that scenario.

Good concept maybe a bit over simplified and certainty isn't a thing so there has to be a cut off somewhere. Also certain errors are directional and therefore dont stack in all directions ie wind is left right but velocity and range uncertainty is up down. Its still way closer to accurate than the old my gun shoots 3 shots in 1moa so i can shoot 5 inches at 500 easy. Its also misses the error of a bad zero which is pretty huge as it shifts the centre of the distribution

Originally Posted by Tentman

My favorite bug bear I see every range session is natural point of aim, cripes if guys are not getting this right on a nice grassy level mound, they haven't a hope on the hill with its complexities - get this wrong and even 200 is a long shot.

I can still remember learning about that on the old other Forum, it was probably Norway and one of his videos. What a huge difference it makes, even just sighting in.

For a noob like me that clip is an excellent and easy to digest and succinct introduction/summary of the factors at play and how they are amplified at range. I'm aware of them but didn't have an understanding of WHICH factors had the biggest impact, so good to know.