Is RL17 a barrel burner?

I'm thinking about upping the game with my dirty old .284 which apart from a trip to Stewart Island, its basically gone unused for far too long.

"Mr Google" says that RL17 is basically the New black, when it comes to .284 performance. This sounds almost to good to be true, the velocities quoted online where faster than my 7mmwsm! So if RL17 is this fast - what's the cost? Is it barrel life?

Anyone got first hand experience, how many shots fired, what barrel length, load details, velocities...

Many thanks in advance

Kj

I'll be following this with interest, my 708 just got converted and re17 was giving velocities much higher than anticipated

See if you can find a decent supply first, there is very little of it around .....:oh noes:

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Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

See if you can find a decent supply first, there is very little of it around .....:oh noes:

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Yeah but our calibres dont need 120gr a load....

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Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

See if you can find a decent supply first, there is very none of it around .....:oh noes:

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fixed.

I was using reloader 17 for some time, just sold my last pound i had cause it was a bit of a joke how unavailable it had been for a while.. I was using it in a 300wsm, velocitys were good.

I have now changed to adi powder for everything as its always available

I know a few people who have gone down the R17 path. At the longer distances you may find the accuracy not as good or temperature stability not as good.
I am not sure the powder itself is a barrel burner but getting the heavier projectiles up above 3000fps seems to burn barrels pretty good.

You don't get speed for free.

Once my re17 is used up might try vihtavourI n550 in my 284 Tikka

Thanks for the replies, so a few things to consider. Monday just stick with ADI then, as it's served me well over the years.

Kj

I use it in one caliber that gets velocity with 1.5 grns less than any others I have tried.
It does not seem sensitive in any temperature I have tried and would suggest it may be in extremes that you get overseas.
Very accurate. No complaints and I have a stash to last me a few yrs😆

Pretty well covered already but when I was building up my 284 I acquired 1 can of RL17 - that was all the shop had. After reading a few alarming reports on forums about shortening barrel life (can't believe everything you read of forums but there seemed to be a reasonable amount of evidence), I returned the can and swapped for ADI. As already said ADI is generally always available notwithstanding the 2206H shortage last year.
Ignoring the barrel life issue I just couldn't see the sense in doing load development only to then not be able to get more RL17. I usually don't just buy one can of powder on its own - buy several of the same lot, but RL17 was just not available in quantity.

I forgot to say if it is a barrel burner, which I doubt. It is not a worry for me as I will be dead before it is an issue as I only use it in a hunting load.

I find my 284 likes adi 2213sc, couldn't tell you speeds but 140 gr gamekings are one large hole at 100meters.

got some RL17 to try with 162 amax when I get bored.

N550 is rocket fuel with 120gn slugs in my 25yrs old .284, 3350 and good hunting accuracy. Best performance with 140s has always come from a case-full of WW ball powder, currently 780. Mine has the standard short-throat and no doubt gives different results compared to that obtainable from long action conversions.

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Originally Posted by killroy

N550 is rocket fuel with 120gn slugs in my 25yrs old .284, 3350 and good hunting accuracy. Best performance with 140s has always come from a case-full of WW ball powder, currently 780. Mine has the standard short-throat and no doubt gives different results compared to that obtainable from long action conversions.

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Have you tried the N550 with 140gn projectiles? When I got my .284 I got a can of RL17, but now its running out I can't seem to find any anywhere, so am looking at other powders. Have heard that H4350 is also good. Any .284 users tried that?

Without to much of a thread steal has anyone used the Berger 140gn VLD Hunting projectiles on deer?

Against everyone's advice I've just had a .284 built on a Rem 700 short action. Scott Trail did the work and unfired I'm very very happy. I can get a Amax in it with a reasonable OAL - I'll post photos and actual OAL tomorrow. It's got a older blued action, a fluted stainless barrel and a HiTech stock. With some heavy steel weaver rings and a Bushnell Elite 4500 3-9 she weighs under 7 pounds. If she shoots I'll change to Talleys and flute the bolt, I'll also change to the Tubb pin and shroud.

There's no way you can do this type of thing on the cheap!

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Originally Posted by craigc

Against everyone's advice I've just had a .284 built on a Rem 700 short action. Scott Trail did the work and unfired I'm very very happy. I can get a Amax in it with a reasonable OAL - I'll post photos and actual OAL tomorrow. It's got a older blued action, a fluted stainless barrel and a HiTech stock. With some heavy steel weaver rings and a Bushnell Elite 4500 3-9 she weighs under 7 pounds. If she shoots I'll change to Talleys and flute the bolt, I'll also change to the Tubb pin and shroud.

There's no way you can do this type of thing on the cheap!

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Why were people advising against it? its a great build. Scott did mine as well and very happy with his work. But mine was done on the cheap craig. Mine was just a Remington Mountain Rifle in 7mm-08 that he rechambered and with an extended mag box. A very easy conversion. A light and powerful conversion.

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Originally Posted by Kudu

Why were people advising against it? its a great build. Scott did mine as well and very happy with his work. But mine was done on the cheap craig. Mine was just a Remington Mountain Rifle in 7mm-08 that he rechambered and with an extended mag box. A very easy conversion. A light and powerful conversion.

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Don't use a short action is what I was told by quite a few people, almost put me off doing it. Glad it didn't!

We'll see how it goes and then I might free my self of the 7mm Rem Mag...

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Originally Posted by craigc

Don't use a short action is what I was told by quite a few people, almost put me off doing it. Glad it didn't!

We'll see how it goes and then I might free my self of the 7mm Rem Mag...

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That makes sense. Mine is a short action as well. With 140gn projectiles they JUST fit in the mag so I haven't bothered to go any bigger, but that doesnot bother me as there is nothing in NZ that I can't knock over with a 140gn projectile. (All my Sambar shooting has been done with a 25-06 after all!!!!)

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Originally Posted by craigc

Don't use a short action is what I was told by quite a few people, almost put me off doing it. Glad it didn't!

We'll see how it goes and then I might free my self of the 7mm Rem Mag...

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My 30/284 in a short action performs above expectations.

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Originally Posted by von tempsky fan

Once my re17 is used up might try vihtavourI n550 in my 284 Tikka

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My apologies for jumping in this thread, but for some reason N550 always gave me higher muzzle pressures than other powders.
This will affect your muzzle (crown) life.

I get higher velocities with RL17 as well, but the powder itself is more bulky, so most of the times I get compressed loads (more than 100% case filling).

Just my 0.10$

Never seen a crown burn out - even when the leed has disappeared up the barrel. Seen crowns damaged by bad cleaning techniques. How do you know there is high pressure at the muzzle? Just interested.

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Originally Posted by zimmer

Never seen a crown burn out - even when the leed has disappeared up the barrel. Seen crowns damaged by bad cleaning techniques. How do you know there is high pressure at the muzzle? Just interested.

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There's a pretty good software called QuickLoad ;)

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

My 30/284 in a short action performs above expectations.

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Same with my 6.5SAUM

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Originally Posted by icebug

There's a pretty good software called QuickLoad ;)

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What are you trying to say....Yes I am fully aware of the capabilities of Quickload. I have my 284 and my two 6.5s fully "quickloaded". Still to get my 6mmBR and 308 done;);)
And if you use and understand Quickload what it tells you is the %age powder burned in you barrel length. It is flame that might damage you muzzle. If you read Litz he will tell you the muzzle pressure almost instantaneously drops to zero when the bullet exits so I don't think muzzle pressure will be the crown burning culprit more likely flame erosion. At any rate enough of semantics, I have yet to see a burnt crown.

QuickLoad predicts the pressure on the muzzle using specific charge weight/bullet/barrel length.
IMHO, a load that exceeds 700 bars at the muzzle will burn your barrel/crown faster.

For those unfamiliar with Quickload this what it offers. This load is close but needs a few tweeks. My muzzle pressure is below the safe limit set by icebug
http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/...pshyxd0zrx.jpg
And a comment of burning/erosion - it is not caused by pressure although obviously high pressure may have an associated high flame level. Erosion works best in the leed area where there is a transition from no rifling to rifling and the angle of the rifling (no matter what angle it has been reamed to) inevitably presents sharp edges, which are exposed to the super hot gases and unburned/still burning powder. Some powders are more aggressive to the rifling than others via abrasion as well. To a lesser extent the primer compound will also erode. At the muzzle the gases are less able to abrade/firecrack as they are travelling in the direction of the parallel rifling ie no exposed edges at an angle to gas flow. Any burning of the crown will occur from the jetting effect of the flame as the projectile exits but will never exhibit itself the same as leed erosion.

Using quickload, what would be the predicted velocity for the same load but from a 22" barrel?

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Originally Posted by kimjon

Using quickload, what would be the predicted velocity for the same load but from a 22" barrel?

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@kimjon Unfortunately I don't run my own copy (a guy on an Aus forum did my 284 and my others another willing guy), and I am currently tossing up whether to buy my own. Otherwise I would be glad to run that thru.
Maybe @icebug would be willing to do it.
The results using my data and your 22" barrel would be indicative only but interesting to see.
It would be better still to do it for yours with some accurate data for your setup plus using maybe a different powder. My barrel is after all 33" long :-) (My one is longer than yours ha ha)

Haha...I'm sure it true on many levels :-)

It was a bit cheeky of me to ask, so all good.

Cheers
Kim

@kimjon, PM me your load and weapon details and I'll see what I can do.

d.

Many thanks, pm sent

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Originally Posted by kimjon

Many thanks, pm sent

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@kimjon could you please post the results. Interested to see. Ta

Sure. I opted for a different load as I have a few amaxs squirrelled away.

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Originally Posted by icebug

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Originally Posted by kimjon

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Originally Posted by icebug

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Originally Posted by kimjon

Cheers for your offer.

The load I'm interested in is:

.284
162gr hornady amax
52.5gr ADI AR2209

It's in a long throated rifle with 1:9.25 twist and 22" barrel.

Many thanks
Kim

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Still need to know which cartridge are we talking about and what's the COAL?

D

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Sorry, coal is 76.5mm and is for a straight .284 Winchester

Many thanks
Kim

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http://s1.postimg.org/ikmfdobnj/Kim.jpg

You can still get more juice with another powder which is less bulky.
Cheers,
D

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Wow that programme is great Icebug !
Question on burn rates of powders. What is the ideal pressure curve. I have both 2209 and 2213 and am surprised that 2213 spikes so quickly when I always thought it was a slower powder.

Technically, there is no "ideal" pressure curve.
Each powder has a specific purpose. Faster powders are used in smaller cartridges, while slow in bigger.
I have no access to "foreign" powders unfortunately (except one box of RL-17 and TrailBoss), Lately I can get only VihtaVuori.

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Originally Posted by Kudu

Have you tried the N550 with 140gn projectiles? When I got my .284 I got a can of RL17, but now its running out I can't seem to find any anywhere, so am looking at other powders. Have heard that H4350 is also good. Any .284 users tried that?

Without to much of a thread steal has anyone used the Berger 140gn VLD Hunting projectiles on deer?

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@Kudu Yes i use them in my 708 and they are very forgiving, have had a couple hit a bit far back but yet dead on their feet due to the fragmentation of the projectile. Have shot animals from 15m to 350 and none have complained.

Well i have also gone .284, currently with Scott at mo. I will be looking to start with AR2209 as i have LOADS of it for my 708 but also have a look at a new powder that is due here soon. Details on Rifle and load etc to come

Hamish