Thread: seating die is pulling out bullets

The buckled round is having your seating die set to low. Screw it out a few turns, put a case in, pull the handle right down and then screw the seating die in till you get resistance. Back it off a quarter. This changes if you want a crimp and the seating die crimps, but I wouldn't worry about that at this stage

Originally Posted by inglishill

The buckled round is having your seating die set to low. Screw it out a few turns, put a case in, pull the handle right down and then screw the seating die in till you get resistance. Back it off a quarter. This changes if you want a crimp and the seating die crimps, but I wouldn't worry about that at this stage

Ive just checked it and it was slightly loose if anything.
Im pretty sure its the flat base of the projectile catching on the edge of the case, I felt quite a resistance with the lever half way down and then you could feel it give.
If it was the issue, I would expect it would do this on every load?
Here is a photo of the clearance on the press.

Just checked a couple of my Lee dies, I don't think the seating stem looks that rough - will post photos for comparison. Maybe try wrapping a bit of 180 grit emery paper (wet, water or oil) around a bullet tip and spin the seating stem in a battery drill to try and smooth out those ridges. It could be gripping the bullet. If that was mine I would definitely do some work on it in a lathe. Alternatively send it to me and I'll sort in the lathe!

I would try chamfering the cases, see how you go.

my .284 seating die stem:

308 one:

Originally Posted by bjp

Just checked a couple of my Lee dies, I don't think the seating stem looks that rough - will post photos for comparison. Maybe try wrapping a bit of 180 grit emery paper (wet, water or oil) around a bullet tip and spin the seating stem in a battery drill to try and smooth out those ridges. It could be gripping the bullet. If that was mine I would definitely do some work on it in a lathe. Alternatively send it to me and I'll sort in the lathe!

I would try chamfering the cases, see how you go.

I should be able to do this in my lathe, I had read a bit about polishing the inside a little while back for different reasons, seems it's common for the dies to leave a ring mark at the top of the bullet, which mine is also doing. I think its not only leaving a mark, but also grabbing it at the same time. These flat base bullets wont help the matter either, but chamfering the cases along with polishing the seating stem may be all it takes.

Grab a VLD chamfer tool and give it a really good internal chamfer. Also, I’ve had projectiles vacuum into the seating stem and I ended up having to drill a hole in the top of the seating stem to stop it happening.
Another good trick is to run a nylon bristle brush, one size up from the calibre you’re using and put it in a drill and burnish the inside of the necks. Polishes it up beauty with 3-4 seconds of polishing and you get way more consistent seating pressures.

The Lee seating dies are designed to crimp the top of the neck. You need to back the die off probably one turn. From memory, the Lee die instructions will tell you this.

The fact that you are having to set the seating stem deeper than the original loaded round points to having too much powder in the case. What powder are you using? and how much?

Originally Posted by Crusty

The Lee seating dies are designed to crimp the top of the neck. You need to back the die off probably one turn. From memory, the Lee die instructions will tell you this.

The fact that you are having to set the seating stem deeper than the original loaded round points to having too much powder in the case. What powder are you using? and how much?

My Lee dies is a set of 3, there is a separate die for crimping.
Your right though, the instructions say to back off a turn if you are using the crimping die.
Not sure the exact reason, because I only ever set it so that the die just touches the case.
Im using 46.5 grains of AR2209, there is still some space at the top of the case however, so is only getting slightly compressed.

Maybe try a drop tube for your powder, it will settle more in the case Have you measured the projectiles as they can vary on the HXP from year to year in length. Maybe even with the old CAC there is variation from year to year.
So some will sit further into the case than others.

Also have you yet to fire any of this newly made ammo? 46.5 grains is a solid charge for flat based projectiles, you get more pressure in FB than say a boat tail bullet of the same weight.

Originally Posted by johnd

Maybe try a drop tube for your powder, it will settle more in the case Have you measured the projectiles as they can vary on the HXP from year to year in length. Maybe even with the old CAC there is variation from year to year.
So some will sit further into the case than others.

Also have you yet to fire any of this newly made ammo? 46.5 grains is a solid charge for flat based projectiles, you get more pressure in FB than say a boat tail bullet of the same weight.

Yes I have fired these, I have actually done even heavier loads then this too, ive loaded up to an extra grain of the stuff and that nearly filled the whole case to the brim with 47.5 grains.
I believe it would be near impossible to overload a 303 with AR2209 to dangerous pressures, the maximum published load i can't fit in these cases.
I posted my loads in the thread I started here a few months ago.
https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....21/index4.html
I tested my loads on a chronograph and they were averaging around 2360fps and the HXP loads fell quite short at only around 2140fps.

The 46.5gr load that others have shared seems to be not far off anyway, someone i know geeked out on barrel oscillations and told me to chase that over velocity but it went way over my head how to plot it out.

Now it was suggested to me that barrel wear on an old rifle may have reduced the pressure and velocity.
I want to compare a cordite load next time at the range. If that measures similar to the HXP, then I know that barrel wear is likely the factor and I will reduce my loads to match. If I get 2450fps with the cordite, then I know my loads are not far off mk7 spec.

Yes the CAC projectiles are indeed longer than the HXP ones. At a rough guess the powder with these loads would be roughly compressing about 3mm.
I tap the shells when I fill them, I can get it to settle a little. Some brass could take more than others depending on the thickness.
If I only neck size, it would give me even more space, I tested this with a spent case.

Originally Posted by Old_School

My Lee dies is a set of 3, there is a separate die for crimping.
Your right though, the instructions say to back off a turn if you are using the crimping die.
Not sure the exact reason, because I only ever set it so that the die just touches the case.
Im using 46.5 grains of AR2209, there is still some space at the top of the case however, so is only getting slightly compressed.

All standard Lee rifle seating dies are TAPER crimp dies, even in the 3-die set. They crimp by pushing the case up into a taper. If you don't want a crimp, or you are using the "factory crimp" die (which is a collet type), you must back the die off as per the instructions. If some cases crumple and some don't, your case lengths might vary. If the cases are different lengths, some will crimp and this might be stopping those projectiles from popping out. The short cases which don't crimp might be the ones which do pop out.

Check your shell holder is the correct one for the round you are loading. Also check the shell holder for gunk and that it lines up with your press and is installed properly.

There is a chance you are putting a lateral force on the bullet and that is jamming it up there until you pull it out a bit on the down stroke, then it releases and lets the loaded round come out. I don't think powder compression would ever push a bullet out that far, a few thousands of an inch maybe.

For a seating die to grip a bullet enough to pull it out, it would have to be as good a s a bullet puller wouldn't it?

Also are you full length sizing g or neck sizing? Those Lee collet neck dies can give lower neck tension on harder brass.

Looking at your first photo, the ring around the top of the bullet looks crooked, those flat base bullets can take some care to get them going into the seating die straight.

Originally Posted by Rated M for Magnum

Check your shell holder is the correct one for the round you are loading. Also check the shell holder for gunk and that it lines up with your press and is installed properly.

There is a chance you are putting a lateral force on the bullet and that is jamming it up there until you pull it out a bit on the down stroke, then it releases and lets the loaded round come out. I don't think powder compression would ever push a bullet out that far, a few thousands of an inch maybe.

For a seating die to grip a bullet enough to pull it out, it would have to be as good a s a bullet puller wouldn't it?

My thoughts too.
Must be sh1t tension or something else. Nothing to do with die pulling the bullet.

Are all the cases trimmed to the same length? If some are substantially longer this could cause the intermittent 'buckling'.