Thread: seating die is pulling out bullets

Originally Posted by Crusty

All standard Lee rifle seating dies are TAPER crimp dies, even in the 3-die set. They crimp by pushing the case up into a taper. If you don't want a crimp, or you are using the "factory crimp" die (which is a collet type), you must back the die off as per the instructions. If some cases crumple and some don't, your case lengths might vary. If the cases are different lengths, some will crimp and this might be stopping those projectiles from popping out. The short cases which don't crimp might be the ones which do pop out.

That makes a bit of sense then, the instructions were not very clear in regards to this other than say to back off if you are using the crimping die.
Anyway, it said to back off quarter a turn if you are not crimping, but screw in half a turn extra if you are crimping.
This explains why it was loose when I checked, as I do remember backing it off quarter a turn thinking about it.
The case lengths all seemed OK when I measured them, they all measured close to 56.2mm. Ive just checked another batch once fired in a different rifle and they measure 56.6mm and both lots are measured after FL resizing. I might need to trim this lot down when I come to load them.

Originally Posted by Rated M for Magnum

Check your shell holder is the correct one for the round you are loading. Also check the shell holder for gunk and that it lines up with your press and is installed properly.

There is a chance you are putting a lateral force on the bullet and that is jamming it up there until you pull it out a bit on the down stroke, then it releases and lets the loaded round come out. I don't think powder compression would ever push a bullet out that far, a few thousands of an inch maybe.

For a seating die to grip a bullet enough to pull it out, it would have to be as good a s a bullet puller wouldn't it?

Its definitely the correct shell holder, this set is prectically new and quite clean and shiny, appears to have had next to no use before I got it.
What you are describing is exactly what I think is happening.

Originally Posted by Rated M for Magnum

Also are you full length sizing g or neck sizing? Those Lee collet neck dies can give lower neck tension on harder brass.

Looking at your first photo, the ring around the top of the bullet looks crooked, those flat base bullets can take some care to get them going into the seating die straight.

Im currently FL resizing until i get a collet die.
Yes, I feel the flat base is affecting this from what I can tell, with the examples of the bucked cases, I felt the lever stop not even with half its travel and there was quite a bit of resistive force to overcome it and then you could feel it give.

Originally Posted by Oldbloke

My thoughts too.
Must be sh1t tension or something else. Nothing to do with die pulling the bullet.

My theory is that its jamming on the die stem, and then when i retract the lever, it pulls it out slightly before coming free.
When i was testing this to get the seating depth correct, I noticed that I had to screw the die down further than what the clearance should be on a factory round, this can only mean one thing, that its pulling it back, or else it should still stay at that depth that the die was set to?
I also could see the line it made from the mouth of the case as seen in the photo, this suggests its being pulled up.

The only things I can think of that will help this will be to deburr the cases some more and polish the die stem, I think both these factors are contributing to both problems im having.
As far as neck tension goes, can i check this from inside measurements? The rounds seem pretty damn tight in the brass.

Seven lines up....you screwed die in further....... Follow instructions..... You back it out unless want to crimp. The ONLY time I've had dies pull projectiles out they are fatter than std projectiles or skinnier than normal blunt ones. You should already be deburring case mouth.... If your convinced the projectile is jamming in hollow of die....put a plastic bead I there,set the die up again and try again. To set up your seater. Screw die into press with empty case on case holder and ram fully up..leave it alone and screw down die till handle twitches...then back die out as per instructions and set die ring in place and lock it there....then remove empty case...place loaded round on shell holder/in shell holder. Unscrew top of seating die well out. Again drop handle down so round goes up into die...now slowly screw top down till handle again twitches.... Now remove loaded round and try seating projectiles in a case..... It SHOULD be almost perfect match for the loaded round.do all that and report back.dont forget to debut case mouth.

So it should be Lee shell holder number 5 then?

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Seven lines up....you screwed die in further....... Follow instructions..... You back it out unless want to crimp. The ONLY time I've had dies pull projectiles out they are fatter than std projectiles or skinnier than normal blunt ones. You should already be deburring case mouth.... If your convinced the projectile is jamming in hollow of die....put a plastic bead I there,set the die up again and try again. To set up your seater. Screw die into press with empty case on case holder and ram fully up..leave it alone and screw down die till handle twitches...then back die out as per instructions and set die ring in place and lock it there....then remove empty case...place loaded round on shell holder/in shell holder. Unscrew top of seating die well out. Again drop handle down so round goes up into die...now slowly screw top down till handle again twitches.... Now remove loaded round and try seating projectiles in a case..... It SHOULD be almost perfect match for the loaded round.do all that and report back.dont forget to debut case mouth.

Sorry ive confused you, I was not referring to the position of the die being screwed into the press, ive had that backed off quarter a turn and locked up the while time, I was referring to the seating die screw at the top that you adjust to set your preferred seating depth.
Anyway, ive bedded it in with wet and dry emry paper using a bullet and tested before and after with a hammer lightly tapping it on a projectile, it was binding prior to bedding it in, but no longer is. I hope this will sort it. See photo.
I think I will go one step further and polish with autosol.

Originally Posted by Rated M for Magnum

So it should be Lee shell holder number 5 then?

Yes just checked and its stamped with a 5, so must be correct.

OK, so I was playing around today with some spare cases I found, and they are indeed loose on the neck.
I just had to pull them harder, but I was able to pull a projectile straight out with my thumb and forefinger which I assume should not be possible.
I am also forgetting that I had a few cases of HXP mixed in here that had never been fired, but had the bullets pulled. I didnt realise that they had live primers until I was half way through de-priming and resizing them on the press, I realised that some cases had no effort on the handle and saw the live primers in the tray.
These ones appear to have better tension and explains why I have not notice this problem with every round that ive reloaded.

Now the question remains, how do i improve neck tension? Do i need to look for a better die set, or simply screw the die down further?

No need to screw die in further. How far it is screwed in effects shoulder bump, not neck tension.
Neck tension is only determined by,,

Diameter of die in neck area
The depriming pin diameter, (neck expander)
Case neck thickness
If brass is very hard or soft

My2c

Originally Posted by Old_School

OK, so I was playing around today with some spare cases I found, and they are indeed loose on the neck.
I just had to pull them harder, but I was able to pull a projectile straight out with my thumb and forefinger which I assume should not be possible.
I am also forgetting that I had a few cases of HXP mixed in here that had never been fired, but had the bullets pulled. I didnt realise that they had live primers until I was half way through de-priming and resizing them on the press, I realised that some cases had no effort on the handle and saw the live primers in the tray.
These ones appear to have better tension and explains why I have not notice this problem with every round that ive reloaded.

Now the question remains, how do i improve neck tension? Do i need to look for a better die set, or simply screw the die down further?

Remove the recapping pin from the die, size a case and the neck should be very tight - you might not be able to insert a bullet. If this is your result, the die is ok. Then measure the recapping pin diameter. If it is too big you will end up with a loose neck.

Originally Posted by Crusty

Remove the recapping pin from the die, size a case and the neck should be very tight - you might not be able to insert a bullet. If this is your result, the die is ok. Then measure the recapping pin diameter. If it is too big you will end up with a loose neck.

That's a good idea, if I find its the problem, would the best solution be to machine it down on my lathe?

Nope. Put it in drill and spin it..hold fine sandpaper in hand and gently take it down a flyshit..real easy to take size off not so easy to put it back on..and we are talking a flyshit here. By all means go hard on corners to make them rounded n smooth but gently gently on fattest bit of shaft/ball.

Yeah i figured that, sandpaper would work well.
Is this common with lee dies?

I do it to ALL my does to make them slip in and out smoother. My lee dies actually smoother than rcbs or Hornady sets I have... Guess like anything some products leave factory floor at 16:55 Friday afternoon lol.

I am not seeing much in the way of measurement here. If the projectile is 0.311" then the ID of the neck should be at least 0.002" less than the bullet diameter. "Neck tension" is a misnomer as it can vary considerably with the hardness of the brass....the best we can do as reloaders is describe the "interference fit" by measurement. In this case I have described an interference fit of 0.002"....you could increase that more if the brass is soft ie just annealed.

Regarding full length sizing versus neck sizing.....invariably brass failure is primer pocket expansion or necks splitting. I have never seen a case failing because of full length sizing and would recommend that every time to ensure headspace is correct for every round loaded, but you will need to be able to measure that with the correct tools to get it right. Your brass will grow over time and full length sizing will be unavoidable so best to start now make every load the same....

Now the question remains, how do i improve neck tension? Do i need to look for a better die set, or simply screw the die down further?[/QUOTE]

Lee collett die will do the job.....if the ID is too great you can reduce the mandrel size to produce what diameter you need. Are you measuring the neck ID....?

Get a Lee collet die. This is an absolute must for the .303 cartridge.

Full length sizing should be avoided on this cartridge, as you can get case head separation in as little as 3 firings. With a collet die, you can get 10+ reloads out of a case.

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