Thread: seating die is pulling out bullets

Originally Posted by Crusty

Micky Duck, Read the previous posts - he has exactly followed my suggestion of resizing the case MINUS the recapping pin. So, of course the neck will be distorted, as the neck is too tight.

Why bother trimming when the test was to make sure the die was reducing the neck diameter correctly?

Exactly, this was just a test and the case is not long enough to warrant trimming.
Anyway, I will do another case in the morning and get the inside diameter measurements and then hopefully I can work out what size to reduce the stem down to.

Originally Posted by Crusty

Micky Duck, Read the previous posts - he has exactly followed my suggestion of resizing the case MINUS the recapping pin. So, of course the neck will be distorted, as the neck is too tight.

Why bother trimming when the test was to make sure the die was reducing the neck diameter correctly?

To trim then d burr case mouth removed the variable of projectiles sticking is why.... Yes definately too tight and bent...

The main reason we debur inside the case is to help ensure the bullet is seated straight esp flat based bullets. It's an important step. Note: this time the bullet has been seated cockeyed.

The outer edge is debured to ensure efective feeding and chambering.

[QUOTE=Old_School;1740455]I pulled out the depriming pin and getting much more tension.
Probably too much now.
I noticed it left some marks around the neck which you may see in the photo.
Anyway, I seated the bullet back and its definitely in nice and tight.
However it buckled the brass near the base of the neck where the base of the projectile would rest.
I believe this is due to too much neck tension.
Attachment 286395

Depends what you intend to do with these loaded rounds as to the accuracy you want to achieve. I use Forster seating dies and re-manufactured the sleeve to suit my resized brass. In that way the brass cannot move sideways and produce the crooked round you have photographed.

Unfortunately with factory dies they have to produce the internal dimensions to suit largest SAMMI spec of any chambers. If you have a tight chamber and a loose die you have what you show in the pic combined with your tight neck and flat base bullet, and they will never be straight under those conditions....that may not matter unless you want 1 MOA accuracy.

Slightly off subject but might be relevent, old lapua brass 30x can't kill it.
Accuracy every now & then throws a flyer. Neck turned to 0.013
The other day I pushed a flat base pill into a fired case, noticed resistance at the corner where shoulder meets neck, tryed 20 fired brass & 3 had definate resistance. Conclusion an internal donut. Had my value out of the brass anyway, could fix with a interal neck reamer, if I had one.
But for me do it yourself, used a broken piece of chain saw file smaller than .224 chucked it up in the drill press & gave the inside neck a slight touch up, could just see a slight shine inside & noticed it was primarily on on side of internal neck, shoulder meets neck. Projectile slides thew easy. Was noticing while seating that the odd round was way firmer. I use the lee collect neck die, then open the neck to a uniform size & bump shoulder 2 th in another die that doesn't full lenght size.

Originally Posted by Old_School

Yes the CAC projectiles are indeed longer than the HXP ones. At a rough guess the powder with these loads would be roughly compressing about 3mm.
I tap the shells when I fill them, I can get it to settle a little. Some brass could take more than others depending on the thickness.
If I only neck size, it would give me even more space, I tested this with a spent case.

The mkv11 CAC are longer because they have a fiber or aluminum tip inside the jacket. I haven't read the whole thread but obviously you're adjusting the seating due to allow for the increased length

I measured my 303 decapping/expander pin at .310"

[QUOTE=Longranger;1740706]

Originally Posted by Old_School

I pulled out the depriming pin and getting much more tension.
Probably too much now.
I noticed it left some marks around the neck which you may see in the photo.
Anyway, I seated the bullet back and its definitely in nice and tight.
However it buckled the brass near the base of the neck where the base of the projectile would rest.
I believe this is due to too much neck tension.
Attachment 286395

Depends what you intend to do with these loaded rounds as to the accuracy you want to achieve. I use Forster seating dies and re-manufactured the sleeve to suit my resized brass. In that way the brass cannot move sideways and produce the crooked round you have photographed.

Unfortunately with factory dies they have to produce the internal dimensions to suit largest SAMMI spec of any chambers. If you have a tight chamber and a loose die you have what you show in the pic combined with your tight neck and flat base bullet, and they will never be straight under those conditions....that may not matter unless you want 1 MOA accuracy.

These are just going to be plinking rounds plus ive been just using these for testing purposes as my first reloads.
Ive fired about 40 of my first reloads so far, all fired OK, but want everything right before I load too many more.
Now that our club is doing regular shoots, im going to go through a lot more ammo, hence why ive started reloading, not doing anything ultra competitive at this point.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

The mkv11 CAC are longer because they have a fiber or aluminum tip inside the jacket. I haven't read the whole thread but obviously you're adjusting the seating due to allow for the increased length

Correct, they have a filler in the tip which means the bullet needs to be longer, but I can leave the seating depth the same on the die for HXP and CAC however, as the bullet height past the neck is the same for both, just the CAC will seat deeper in the neck, so technically its seated deeper but still the same overall length.

Originally Posted by Crusty

I measured my 303 decapping/expander pin at .310"

That's about the same as mine. Mine measures .3105
See my photos below.

Originally Posted by flock

Slightly off subject but might be relevent, old lapua brass 30x can't kill it.
Accuracy every now & then throws a flyer. Neck turned to 0.013
The other day I pushed a flat base pill into a fired case, noticed resistance at the corner where shoulder meets neck, tryed 20 fired brass & 3 had definate resistance. Conclusion an internal donut. Had my value out of the brass anyway, could fix with a interal neck reamer, if I had one.
But for me do it yourself, used a broken piece of chain saw file smaller than .224 chucked it up in the drill press & gave the inside neck a slight touch up, could just see a slight shine inside & noticed it was primarily on on side of internal neck, shoulder meets neck. Projectile slides thew easy. Was noticing while seating that the odd round was way firmer. I use the lee collect neck die, then open the neck to a uniform size & bump shoulder 2 th in another die that doesn't full lenght size.

How easy is it to find lapua 303 brass? Ive got a ton of Canadian defense industries brass (DIZ)
I have hundreds of once fired along with a hundred cases that have been deprimed and full resized according to the seller, however, I see that the necks are loose, the bullets drop right down unto the case, so not sure what die was used here.


Anyway, I loaded another round today and will go through the issues I encountered.

So I started off here with a once fired HXP case that I have full length sized, deprimed and cleaned.
You can see the deburring tool I use in the photo.
Case inner diameter measures .308, im not sure if this is normal, but my bullets have been seating loose as discussed prior.


Now here is the same case after being put through the neck sizing die with the depriming pin removed, it now measures. 300.
Im not sure if this is a too tight a fit, but the bullets are most certainly seating tighter as a result.

Here is a closer up photo, it has left some marks around the neck that ive not observed before with the depriming pin fitted.


I then proceeded to seat a bullet, and it still has some deformation, but not quite as bad as my last go.


There are still marks around the edge of the bullet. I no longer feel its from the bullet being pulled out by the seating die, this thing is in pretty firm, but could be the inside of the die making these marks somehow?



Depriming pin measures. 3105, is this too large?


Another thing I'm unhappy with is the shell holder. It seems to keep the case centre, but is loose either side.
Look here, it barely grabs the rim, and it leaves marks on it. On occasion the case jams on it and i have to wiggle it to break it free of the shell holder.
I also have a photo of the underside of the die in the press, as I was asked earlier regarding how centered it was.


I had also meant to ask if the loosely seated bullets are likely to affect the velocity/chamber pressure?
I may need to test more loads on the chronograph again to compare.

I'm going to ask why don't your projectiles look like copper jackets, surely you haven't got nickel ones? Are you coating them with moly?

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

I'm going to ask why don't your projectiles look like copper jackets, surely you haven't got nickel ones? Are you coating them with moly?

They are cupronickel ones, pulled from 1942 CAC ammo.
Been told they foul up the barrels, but I dont have too many of them and want to get rid of these first before wasting my copper ones.

Wrong shell holder.

I think neck should be about 0.003" smaller than the bullet.

Expander is 0.310.
Abt right.

Suggest you
Measure all bullets.
Anneal necks
Lube inside necks as well as outside and size.

See what happens.

Bullets are probably marked from previous load/ammo

Originally Posted by Oldbloke

Wrong shell holder.

I think neck should be about 0.003" smaller than the bullet.

My shell holder is stamped no5, presumably its a lee holder unless its been mixed up with a different brand?

Originally Posted by Oldbloke

Bullets are probably marked from previous load/ammo

I had polished them in the tumbler, no marks present. Looking at the photo it has vertical lines underneath which would suggest movement from inside the case, but I dont currently see how thats possible.

Originally Posted by Oldbloke

Expander is 0.310.
Abt right.

Suggest you
Measure all bullets.
Anneal necks
Lube inside necks as well as outside and size.

See what happens.

So if all my measurements look ok, could it be lack of lube? I dont think ive ever lubed the inside of the case.
I haven't annealed this brass yet, but didn't think it was necessary until a second firing. I know some annual every time, but im still yet to build my induction annealer, but will give it a go on my gas cooker.

Edit:
Here is a photo of the bullets prior to loading.
Also measurement of my case holder, measures .485 inches