Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Black Watch DPT


User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 70
Like Tree55Likes

Thread: See separation?

  1. #31
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Hawkes bay
    Posts
    594
    I've been getting split necks upon 1st firing of my norma brass, maybe 1 in 3. 300 saum necked down. 62grains of 2213sc with a 140vld . Real mild, accurate load. I wouldnt have thought they would need annealing or anything from new? Any reason why this would be happening?

  2. #32
    Member Tahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    NI
    Posts
    6,766
    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Have these cases been heck turned?
    No

  3. #33
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    BOP
    Posts
    2,495
    Do you really need to anneal the cases, have reloaded for 40 plus years and never annealed any of my brass. I do get split necks after a while but usually get quite a few loads from them before this happens. Some brass is better than others and seems to go forever. Most of the time the first thing to go is the primer pocket enlarges and then I chuck the brass.
    I suppose different rifles have different effects on brass too so there are a lot of variables out there.
    shooternz and Moa Hunter like this.

  4. #34
    Member northdude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    north auckland area
    Posts
    7,465
    thar has invented a new sabot wildcat @Mooseman i find federal brass the worst ive tried as far as enlarged primer pockets go
    #POGO

  5. #35
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    BUsh
    Posts
    38

    Neck separation

    I have a SAUM 180gr running at 3050 fps with up to 12 firings per Norma brass.....no issues yet.

    There appear to be heavy vertical scratching on all the necks, and my guess that is replicated inside too...could be huge stress at the point of separation if those necks are as tight as they look. Do not pull your expander up through the re-sized neck......remove it from the stem, punch out the primer, clean the inside with a brush, lube the inside of the neck with something like sizing lube, then install the expander and press down from the top. Even better get a K&M expander to do the job.

    The other notable marks are at the top of the neck...quite shiny while the rest of the neck is overly black from gas leakage. Properly sized and annealed necks should have very little powder residue, and in fact if all the planets have aligned you should get witness marks on the neck from the powder representing the number of bolt lugs....! Have you checked the overall chamber length to the top of the neck and the headspace of your loaded round compared to a newly fire-formed case...best to have half to one thou clearance at the shoulders, and 10-20 thou at the top of the neck. That is not critical as long as all the brass is trimmed to the same length.. Also ensure there is no carbon ring formed at that critical junction of the neck and freebore.......?

    Regarding annealing....it is difficult to over anneal except if the heat migrates to the base, then you are in trouble.It is not detrimental to cool copper and its alloys so get that heat down past the shoulder base....heat the neck and shoulders very quickly, and dunk it to prevent the heat migration. Lapua brass has very clear and consistent annealing evidence.....replicate that and you are on the right track.
    Last edited by Longranger; 24-02-2020 at 09:40 PM.
    Danny, Moa Hunter and outlander like this.

  6. #36
    Member Danny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Central NI
    Posts
    3,959
    That was an interesting read @Longranger
    In your opinion how important is it to anneal brass? And when?
    Dan M

  7. #37
    Member outdoorlad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    1,930
    Quote Originally Posted by Tahr View Post
    No. I pretty much just do the neck and some shoulder.
    Im guessing its to do with your annealing technique of not doing to just below the Shoulder & with a healthy load? Theres a guy on trade me in Wellie who offers annealing, our club Has bought an AMP annealing machine which is magic, Id be happy to run your brass thru it if you like.
    Tahr, Danny and Steelisreal like this.
    Shut up, get out & start pushing!

  8. #38
    Member 10-Ring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Middle Earth
    Posts
    1,367
    Seen the same thing happen with a friends 300WSM. The headspace was too great i.e. over sized as mentioned by ChrisW and the three times fired cases were loaded with a new different batch of powder which was at least 1.5 grains hotter than the previous lot.
    ChrisW likes this.
    "The 257 Roberts, some people like to call it the .257 Bob. I think these people should be hung in trees where crows can peck at them." - David Petzal

  9. #39
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    BUsh
    Posts
    38
    Quote Originally Posted by Danny View Post
    That was an interesting read @Longranger
    In your opinion how important is it to anneal brass? And when?
    It is only important if you want accurate loaded brass. Annealing is essential if you FLS and want consistent headspace and neck perfection in both runout and interference fit on the projectile. I do anneal after every firing, but with a proper annealer. Otherwise just carry on and dispose of the brass when the neck splits, then get new annealed brass......by the way the first question needs addressing...why do the manufacturers anneal brass if they consider it an unnecessary step.....?

    tahr....what you might try is annealing with a timer, a flame mounted on a movable stop, and a drill in a jig......spin the brass in the drill at the same place on the flame (preferably the body/shoulder junction and the heat will migrate to the neck) and after the necessary time remove the flame, undo the chuck and drop the case into water.....develop a system so the time, flame placement and drill speed are all consistent, and you will be good to go. I am presuming you know how to correctly headspace your brass after sizing......?

  10. #40
    Member Sideshow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    5,990
    Thanks for the reply to my post @Tahr
    It's all fun and games till Darthvader comes along
    I respect your beliefs but don't impose them on me.

  11. #41
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    BUsh
    Posts
    38

    The proof is in the pudding

    Shot with 7mm SAUM with mirage and wind conditions at 400yds....not perfect but getting close. These rounds are annealed everytime, headspace and neck interference closely controlled, and all the usual brass prep attended to each loading.

    One difference is the chamber is tight and close attention is needed to brass migration affecting the neck wall thickness....reaming and turning needed sometimes to maintain consistency, and voila.....!
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    25 /08 IMP likes this.

  12. #42
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Taranaki
    Posts
    946
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooseman View Post
    Do you really need to anneal the cases, have reloaded for 40 plus years and never annealed any of my brass. I do get split necks after a while but usually get quite a few loads from them before this happens. Some brass is better than others and seems to go forever. Most of the time the first thing to go is the primer pocket enlarges and then I chuck the brass.
    I suppose different rifles have different effects on brass too so there are a lot of variables out there.
    Even when you resize to a different calibre?

  13. #43
    Member northdude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    north auckland area
    Posts
    7,465
    I don't annealed when I'm resizing to a different caliber mind you I'm only after hunting accuracy and loads are well within that

  14. #44
    Member 10-Ring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Middle Earth
    Posts
    1,367
    Quote Originally Posted by Longranger View Post
    It is only important if you want accurate loaded brass. Annealing is essential if you FLS and want consistent headspace and neck perfection in both runout and interference fit on the projectile. I do anneal after every firing, but with a proper annealer. Otherwise just carry on and dispose of the brass when the neck splits, then get new annealed brass......by the way the first question needs addressing...why do the manufacturers anneal brass if they consider it an unnecessary step.....?

    tahr....what you might try is annealing with a timer, a flame mounted on a movable stop, and a drill in a jig......spin the brass in the drill at the same place on the flame (preferably the body/shoulder junction and the heat will migrate to the neck) and after the necessary time remove the flame, undo the chuck and drop the case into water.....develop a system so the time, flame placement and drill speed are all consistent, and you will be good to go. I am presuming you know how to correctly headspace your brass after sizing......?
    Excellent post, although it's not necessary to drop the case into water once annealed as it doesn't achieving anything of value unless you like drying out wet cases.
    Tech likes this.
    "The 257 Roberts, some people like to call it the .257 Bob. I think these people should be hung in trees where crows can peck at them." - David Petzal

  15. #45
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    BUsh
    Posts
    38
    Quote Originally Posted by 10-Ring View Post
    Excellent post, although it's not necessary to drop the case into water once annealed as it doesn't achieving anything of value unless you like drying out wet cases.
    Well its all about mitigating risk.....I do that so the primers don't explode prematurely in my hand.....just kidding....!
    zimmer and 10-Ring like this.

 

 

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Welcome to NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums! We see you're new here, or arn't logged in. Create an account, and Login for full access including our FREE BUY and SELL section Register NOW!!