1080 drops and how effective is the deer repellant

Hi guys, Im new to the site so any help would be appreciated.

Looking at doing a deer hunting trip in the Kaimanawas along Clements Mill Rd however there has been a 1080 drop in this area.

I have emailed DOC about the issue but they werent very helpful and basically said that the 1080 is covered in deer repellant meaning the deer wont eat it - this apparently reduces the level of deer "by-kill" but not completely elimiate it so you are basically eating at your own risk.

Ive heard you can tell if a deer has eaten it by the colour of its insides etc but im not sure if its worth the trip down from Auckland if we are unable to eat anything we kill

Does anyone know more about this issue?

Cheers

Hi Jemm, welcome to the site. Just wait until after dinner time and this thread will explode with comments. :) Good luck mate.

Jemm park up at poronui and walk the poled route through poronui station and head for the Oamaru DoC hut it is outside the 1080 buffer zone and there are deer around that area it is a 3:40 walk so you will want to be in there for a few nights to make it worthwhile. As for deer repellent I have no faith in it or trust it. If you can afford it book a flight with helisika and get choppered in to the Oamaru Doc hut

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Originally Posted by Jemm009

Hi guys, Im new to the site so any help would be appreciated.

Looking at doing a deer hunting trip in the Kaimanawas along Clements Mill Rd however there has been a 1080 drop in this area.

I have emailed DOC about the issue but they werent very helpful and basically said that the 1080 is covered in deer repellant meaning the deer wont eat it - this apparently reduces the level of deer "by-kill" but not completely elimiate it so you are basically eating at your own risk.

Ive heard you can tell if a deer has eaten it by the colour of its insides etc but im not sure if its worth the trip down from Auckland if we are unable to eat anything we kill

Does anyone know more about this issue?

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Hi Jemm... Myself and a couple of Taupo guys stayed at Sika Lodge ...(We were generously given free accomadation) While we watched and monitored a Clements road aerial drop about four years ago...It was a carrot drop. The first baits we picked up were almost purple in colour from the deer repellant. The deer reppellant in this case was (Deer Blood).

The drop finished about four and by half five it was raining steadily... 10 oclock it was still raining and the deer repellant had washed off the carrot pieces completely. Whether the deer repellant retained any usefullness beyond this point we were unable to assertain... but the general consensus was, probably not.

Put it this way I would not be eating any animal no matter what they say out of that area.

I could be wrong but 1080 only accumulates in the Liver?

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Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

And it is excreted realitively quickly and doesn't accumulate like most of the so called safe toxins.

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About 10 days...So if you have baits on the ground for 3 months then I would take that time frame into consideration.

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Originally Posted by Scribe

About 10 days...So if you have baits on the ground for 3 months then I would take that time frame into consideration.

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The toxin is fucked pretty quickly when exposed to water though, that's not the case for the baits most of the time but as you say I would avoid the place for the the usual 6 months if you were unsure...

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Originally Posted by Wildman

I could be wrong but 1080 only accumulates in the Liver?

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I wouldnt go head to head with you on the liver thing 'wildman" dogs never seem to get as far as the liver and they are stuffed.

It would be alright I guess if you didnt plan on using your knackers in the future. But 1080 is rated as a male reproductive toxin in some country's. Particularly America where they make it. Like most bad shit it goes for your gonads.

From our own Ministry of Health Publications...Public Health Perspectives...December 2008.

"On this basis the greatest concern would be short-term exposures at high concentration particularly for pregnant woman during the vulnerable periods of organ development in their unborn babies.

Studies show that 1080 can cause foetal skeletal malformation, cardimyopathy/damage to heart muscle, and testicular effects/ reduction in sperm count in animals........................................... ....................

Considering the Kiwi male already has the lowest sperm count in the Western Worlds....The Aussie may not be able to match us in Olympic medals per head...but he is a damn sight more potent and they have already offered their services to their poor Trans Tasman neighbours. You dont want to be sending your wife to Australia on holiday.

If I was planning a family I would not be taking the risk.

On another plain look at the problems Vietnam Veterans exposed to Agent Orange have passed on to their next generation and in some cases I believe the generation after that.

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Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Interesting stuff Scribe. Not disputing anything you quoted. If you put the word Marijuana at the top of the page most of the results would be the same. Yet half the retards up in your neck of the woods want the shit legalised.

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Yes I agree, "7mm" many things are bad for you, most of these things you take the option on using them or not like Maijuana. Up here we dont have the option whether we take 1080 or not it is dropped into our water supplies.

The DVD 'Poisoning Paradise' Some of the scenes with the baits in the water are shot In Kauaeraunga River the Thames water supplies...Some of the baits we found in the stream around the water filter of a childrens camp occupied at the time we traced the line back to the tanks and they were filling at the time. This was The "Kauaeraunga Forest Education Camp"

We dont like it.

The legal allowable limit for 1080 in water samples after a drop is exceeded many times on many drops

1080 is not supposed to be in our water supplies. The Medical Officer of Health sets buffer zones of 60 metres around both human and stock water supplies. Most of drops I have monitored or gone in after for a look we have found the buffer zone have been ignored and the baits have entered the river at normal sowing rates...Indeed all of the resource consents I have read state "that providing 1080 bait does not enter a river at greater than normal sowing rates it is a non notifyable incident".

Scribe you could also put drinking and smokes in that same category I'd say. As well as having your cell phone in your pocket, having a bad diet and god knows what else. I'm not saying 1080 wont kill you if you eat it but if you truly want to understand what it is and how it works then you need to get past the emotive stuff that people like the Graff boys put forward. The reality is that it is a poison and as such is a tool. How that tool is used is the contentious part... 1080 unfortunately is especially effective at killing dogs, you need a much smaller dose to kill a dog than you do a possum. They have used it Aussie to control foxes and the like... Relatively, it isn't that toxic to birds as it is to mammals, hence why we use in so much in NZ. We have no native mammals that are of by-catch concern. Also go and compare the accumulation and break down rates with other poisons such as Brodi and you will see it 1080 aint so bad...

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Far from being emotive I have put the time in on the ground pre poison and post poison monitoring some of the biggest 1080 drops in the 90s...and I dont know anybody who spends more time in post poison forests than the Graf boys.

The asterisks on some of the drops above are drops carried out at the new low sowing rate of 3 to 5 kg per ha You may say these are old statistics. But to these we could add the 41% of the kea killed in 2007 in the Haast/Fox drop and the 78 % kea kill in the North Okarito block 2011.

When you go into things like sperm counts and the like you are doing it to scare people. You need to put things in a wider perspective. Its sounds like you have first hand experience then, as do I, and you will note that I didn't say that it doesn't kill native animals. However it is the best tool we have at the moment to control possums over a large area bar none. I agree we can do better but that is a process ...

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Originally Posted by Wildman

When you go into things like sperm counts and the like you are doing it to scare people. You need to put things in a wider perspective. Its sounds like you have first hand experience then, as do I, and you will note that I didn't say that it doesn't kill native animals. However it is the best tool we have at the moment to control possums over a large area bar none. I agree we can do better but that is a process ...

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None of these post are done to scare people 'wildman'... we deal in facts... and these facts about sperm count were produced by our own Ministry Of Health...As well the fact that 1080 as a male reproductive toxin is well known and well researched.

78% kill on kea WTF . There was a news article about a school boy who through a stone and kill 1 only 1 and that got front page of the press . He got in a whole lot of shit over that one . Even had to undergo Enviro work for doc as part of his punishment , probably painting carrots ? What was the total number of kea killed aprox in the 78% ?

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Originally Posted by Munsey

78% kill on kea WTF . There was a news article about a school boy who through a stone and kill 1 only 1 and that got front page of the press . He got in a whole lot of shit over that one . Even had to undergo Enviro work for doc as part of his punishment , probably painting carrots ? What was the total number of kea killed aprox in the 78% ?

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'munsey the modern method of counting some bird casualties from a 1080 drop is by radio collar tracking. It used to be done by a method called 5 minute bird counts.

Anyway there were 9 kea carrying radio collars prior to the drop in the Nothern Okarito Forest .. The birds were tracked after the 1080 drop and 7 were found to have succumbed to the poison...I dont know what the estimated total of birds were in the block prior to the drop......But some experts say that their are as few as 900 birds left in the wild in NZ

Thanks scribe for that . A question ? Was the public made aware of that mass kill of kea . To be honest first iv ever heard of it .

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Originally Posted by Munsey

Thanks scribe for that . A question ? Was the public made aware of that mass kill of kea . To be honest first iv ever heard of it .

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I believe it was first brought to the publics attention by "Dave Asher" South Coast Productions...They are the guys that make all those wonderful helicopter hunting videos ... The last great adventure... Arawhata Bill ... he said before the Haast /Fox drop the kea were a bloody nuisance filming up on the tussock, but after the drop they flew for hours just to find a small mob of kea to include in one of the films. The kea killing did appear in a local paper. that I know of because some of our West Coast Allies "F.A.T.E Farmers Against ten eighty" passed it on to us. Mike Bennet (The venison Hunters) also wrote an article on the killing of the kea.

Some DOC personal said they were unaware that 1080 killed kea...But the first 1080 line that Bill Axbey (In charge of the Southern Lakes District) laid when he inspected it had hundreds of dead birds on it including many many dead kea. Now Bill never used 1080 again and wrote many reports on how 1080 was devastating the native bird population particularly kea.

We all knew 1080 killed kea and DOC didnt????

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Originally Posted by Wildman

Scribe you could also put drinking and smokes in that same category I'd say. As well as having your cell phone in your pocket, having a bad diet and god knows what else. I'm not saying 1080 wont kill you if you eat it but if you truly want to understand what it is and how it works then you need to get past the emotive stuff that people like the Graff boys put forward. The reality is that it is a poison and as such is a tool. How that tool is used is the contentious part... 1080 unfortunately is especially effective at killing dogs, you need a much smaller dose to kill a dog than you do a possum. They have used it Aussie to control foxes and the like... Relatively, it isn't that toxic to birds as it is to mammals, hence why we use in so much in NZ. We have no native mammals that are of by-catch concern. Also go and compare the accumulation and break down rates with other poisons such as Brodi and you will see it 1080 aint so bad...

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I thought this speech was familiar except for the cell phone bit ...Damned if I dont remember someone giving us the same sort speech after the Hercules passed over the top of us spraying agent orange and we all said what the fuck was that.

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Originally Posted by Scribe

Damned if I dont remember someone giving us the same sort speech after the Hercules passed over the top of us spraying agent orange and we all said what the fuck was that.

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And I bet that more people said "I dunno but grab a bar of soap and have a shower" than said "It's a toxic defoliant that will have a nasty lasting impact on you and your families". Although the circumstances were entirely different, there are many parallels Scribe.

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Originally Posted by Wildman

When you go into things like sperm counts and the like you are doing it to scare people. You need to put things in a wider perspective. Its sounds like you have first hand experience then, as do I, and you will note that I didn't say that it doesn't kill native animals. However it is the best tool we have at the moment to control possums over a large area bar none. I agree we can do better but that is a process ...

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Still doesn't make it a humane killer or safe in our environment, Its like saying nucular weapons are the best tool for winning a war.

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

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Still doesn't make it a humane killer or safe in our environment, Its like saying nucular weapons are the best tool for winning a war.

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+1

We live in a place that believe in 'innocent until proven guilty'...so why is 'poison until we find an alternative' okay? You can't un-torture animals..

BTW Wildman I think you have made some very valid points earlier, about how people may percieve the fight.

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

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Still doesn't make it a humane killer or safe in our environment, Its like saying nucular weapons are the best tool for winning a war.

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That's it in a nutshell. Besides which, it's not the only way of killing possums, ground laidf 1080 avoids most of the problems, it's just that they won't pay the extra money.

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Originally Posted by Wildman

Scribe you could also put drinking and smokes in that same category I'd say. As well as having your cell phone in your pocket, having a bad diet and god knows what else. I'm not saying 1080 wont kill you if you eat it but if you truly want to understand what it is and how it works then you need to get past the emotive stuff that people like the Graff boys put forward. The reality is that it is a poison and as such is a tool. How that tool is used is the contentious part... 1080 unfortunately is especially effective at killing dogs, you need a much smaller dose to kill a dog than you do a possum. They have used it Aussie to control foxes and the like... Relatively, it isn't that toxic to birds as it is to mammals, hence why we use in so much in NZ. We have no native mammals that are of by-catch concern. Also go and compare the accumulation and break down rates with other poisons such as Brodi and you will see it 1080 aint so bad...

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Good work wildman. It's time we stopped looking like simpletons. grafs lost my support when they put that story in R&R or outdoor with what to do when a dogs poisoned and told people to stuff tobacco in it's mouth and cut it's tail off. Good guys but if that's their idea of vet care, then they're hypocrites on the animals cruelty thing. Nice guys though. Shame the vid was just emotive propaganda.

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Originally Posted by Cowboy

Good work wildman. It's time we stopped looking like simpletons. grafs lost my support when they put that story in R&R or outdoor with what to do when a dogs poisoned and told people to stuff tobacco in it's mouth and cut it's tail off. Good guys but if that's their idea of vet care, then they're hypocrites on the animals cruelty thing. Nice guys though. Shame the vid was just emotive propaganda.

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This is an old bushman cure to induce vomitting and bleed and animal and I have heard it said these methods have saved dog lives.

A wise man knows if a dog shows symptoms of 1080 poisoning out in the bush you are not going to get it to the vet in time to save it.

The truth and what happens in real life is often emotive. Cruelty is an emotive subject and impossible to present in any other way.

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Originally Posted by Jemm009

Hi guys, Im new to the site so any help would be appreciated.

Looking at doing a deer hunting trip in the Kaimanawas along Clements Mill Rd however there has been a 1080 drop in this area.

I have emailed DOC about the issue but they werent very helpful and basically said that the 1080 is covered in deer repellant meaning the deer wont eat it - this apparently reduces the level of deer "by-kill" but not completely elimiate it so you are basically eating at your own risk.

Ive heard you can tell if a deer has eaten it by the colour of its insides etc but im not sure if its worth the trip down from Auckland if we are unable to eat anything we kill

Does anyone know more about this issue?

Cheers

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Welcome to the site mate check out TV Wild :: Home that will give you an idea what that shit does to deer. repellant whats that they probably use a attractant knowing them. if doc has just done a drop it will be closed for 4-6 months before you can take meat out of there i think. well that will be the case when they drop it at my back door.