Thread: 45/70 Subsonic

Originally Posted by rossi.45

now i dont think its Cricket Moa to imply with biblical references that somehow your adversary " Plays for the Other team " so to speak, even if its a rather vague reference . . . am i taking this out of context, definitely, desperate times call for desparate measures.

anyway . . .

i do think that anything over 405grns. is getting into Cape Buffalo territory . . . animals in NZ just arent that Big and tough to need more bullet weight, 400 is overkill now.

ramble alert . . .

last time i went up the Hill with my Son to show him how the .45/70 is working, he has seen the .30cals in action so kinda knew what to expect . . . he was amazed at the power of the .45cal 340s
they didnt fall down they were smashed down, the Big Billy was hit front on and his chest collapsed in on itself, fast, like being hit with a sledgehammer . . the others were side on shoots with full thru n thru penetration with bullets hitting the rocks behind them with a SMACK . . . seriously dude i dont think you need another 100+ grains

but you want what you want, but talking time is over . . . " lets get it on " . . . get those bullets and get out there, do whats needed to make it happen.


i know i won't be doing any work with the .45 for a few months at least, busy trying to get the last diehard Rabbits cleanned up over the Winter, i have shot most of the stupid/unlucky ones . . . as a bonus i have the .223 setup finally sorted with its own scope ( VX3 4.5-14 Varmint Ret ) which is now a machine

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Dear rossi, you are 'straw clutching' at best and we both know it. To even hint that my reference to Lot's wife carried a tiny suggestion of getting your targets confused. We are both men of Honor and I would never stoop to such tactics. You are capable of much better humor filled retorts.
As to Buffalo, I owned the biggest herd of Nth American Bison in NZ for a while (50 animals) and I can state with my hand on a stack of Bibles that a 300 grn XTP at 1025 fps is not enough for a bison. In fact a 405 grn at sub velocities would not be enough. At higher velocity yes. And while I am on this bit about Bison there are no doubt blokes reading this and wondering 'why so much religion boys' well guess the full name of the chap who made the Sharps Rifles - Christian Sharps !! So Rossi and I haven't started something, we are just following those who have gone before.
My thoughts on bullet weight and performance are thus: We want stopping power and trajectory and subsonic quietness. Velocity with subs is a constant, we cant increase velocity for more target energy and a flatter trajectory. A long high BC bullet will give us a bit better trajectory and retained energy. So Hollowpointing allows a projectile to be made longer at the same weight. I think the Outlaw State designs probably have it for big diameter calibers. Look at some of those LeHigh subsonic bullets all Hollowpoints. The other important matter is energy transfer. My 300 grn XTP's will pass through like your 405's on fallow and small pigs which means that we are not achieving the optimum shock wave effect in the game. We all want humane quick kills. Here is an example to consider, I remember reading about the bloke who developed the 220 swift. He machined up some solids ( to withstand the velocity) for testing on rabbits. A feeding rabbit was selected, at the first shot the rabbit paused and then continued feeding, at the second shot it laid its ears flat, the third shot was with a projectile that had grooves machined in it, the rabbit was cut in half. All shots hit the target. I would like to achieve that 'instant rigor' effect I described happens with Hares and Paradise rabbits, or as near as could be.
PS if you are interested I have a 2506 AI that is very effective on 'the last rabbits' you are welcome to borrow