Thread: Charging overseas hunters

Resounding no from me, have no issue with them coming here, the last thing we need is more regulation associated with hunting. Where would it stop getting DOC involved with a fee system for hunting?

Was just about to post but @whanahuia beat me to it. @Zedrex also touched on some points in his first paragraph that we need to think on such as once tourists are changed a tag fee who’s to say residents won’t be next.

I believe overseas visitors who wish to hunt our wild game animals should definitely be required to pay a fee. Bit like getting a fishing licence to fish rivers & lakes for trout. I think US$250 for a 1 month licence would be a good start. And there’s no logic that says that should creep into us kiwis getting charged. The funds could be allocated to supporting set up & running HOSI, or perhaps DOC ( specifically to pay for track & hut maintenance). The country (govt) is facing very tough decisions around how to fund all the things we voters want fixed. So levying overseas visitors is a good way of generating extra $ at no cost to taxpayers.
I also feel strongly that there needs to restrictions on some or perhaps all hunting ballots. Eg for the Wap block ballots the 1st & 2nd periods should be exclusively for Kiwi citizens or residents. International visitors can only participate in 3rd & 4th periods. Same logic should go to other ballots as well.

Originally Posted by chainsaw

I believe overseas visitors who wish to hunt our wild game animals should definitely be required to pay a fee. Bit like getting a fishing licence to fish rivers & lakes for trout. I think US$250 for a 1 month licence would be a good start. And there’s no logic that says that should creep into us kiwis getting charged. The funds could be allocated to supporting set up & running HOSI, or perhaps DOC ( specifically to pay for track & hut maintenance). The country (govt) is facing very tough decisions around how to fund all the things we voters want fixed. So levying overseas visitors is a good way of generating extra $ at no cost to taxpayers.
I also feel strongly that there needs to restrictions on some or perhaps all hunting ballots. Eg for the Wap block ballots the 1st & 2nd periods should be exclusively for Kiwi citizens or residents. International visitors can only participate in 3rd & 4th periods. Same logic should go to other ballots as well.

Well said

I cleaned some heads for 2 party's of USA hunters who did DIY hunts this year. If you had to add up everything they did while they were here including helicopter flights, accommodation etc... NZ would have made a bit of money out of them.

Originally Posted by Titanium

Not sure what you are asking but shouldn't overseas hunters get charged to hunt in NZ just as we would if we hunted overseas.

Putting aside whether or not it would make NZ great again, if we collected a fee from overseas hunters, using the above as a justification doesn’t hold water. In some countries you have to pay, others you don’t. Some countries you can’t even go hunting.

But saying that overseas hunters should have to pay since we have to pay if we hunt overseas, falls over as soon as someone from another free hunting country arrives.

The question should really be whether or not NZ has a net benefit from collecting a fee. A fair question to ask would be whether the NZ hunting fraternity would have a net benefit too. But I also think in reality it would be difficult to enforce.
e.g. how would an enforcement officer prove the difference between a guest of mine that accompanied me into the Tararua range to shoot a deer on a Saturday morning, and some old mate from overseas who I bumped into on the track after arriving alone. Does the same fee apply for shooting a few rabbits in a Greytown orchid on the Friday night before?.
I can imagine it would become impractical at an early stage.

this is one of those be very carefull what you wish for least it bite you in your fundamental orifice - the cost of enforcing any charge rules it out since the small amount collected would not make it viable -gmm sums it all up well - we do not need more regulation around hunting - gets a major resounding no from me

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

this is one of those be very carefull what you wish for least it bite you in your fundamental orifice - the cost of enforcing any charge rules it out since the small amount collected would not make it viable -gmm sums it all up well - we do not need more regulation around hunting - gets a major resounding no from me

Agreed, and you put it better than I did in saying that enforcement costs would outweigh the fees being enforced.

I’d have no problem with paying a fee to hunt doc land. But if the money didn’t go back to sustain or improve the doc hunting experience I’d be disappointed, it would just be a cash grab and no benefits would flow back to local who hunt doc lands.


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Originally Posted by longshot

Agreed, and you put it better than I did in saying that enforcement costs would outweigh the fees being enforced.

Clever application of law solved 90% of this by putting costs on export of trophy's or requiring license purchase pre firearms permit application. In field enforcement will never happen but that doesn't mean it's not mostly enforceable.

Originally Posted by @Titanium

What's everybody's thoughts on charging overseas hunters to hunt here. So many videos of overseas hunters doing DIY trips after Tahr and deer and at no cost except their travel costs. As far as im aware we can't go to other countries and hunt for free. My feeling is that if you don't work and pay taxes here they should be paying a hunting fee beforehand.

Like a lot of things , On the face of it , the idea seems reasonable. But then when you dig in deeper, complications arise that require addressing then it gets complicated and more money is needed to administer this then it gets more complicated as interetations and definitions add up then you need more money...

EG ; What would an overseas hunter be defined as ? Someone who was not born here? Someone who does not live here? Someone who was born here but lives in another country (aussie maybe?) These all require answering before it progresses then you get some smart arse (there are always some) who will interet it a different way to suit them...

As an example go back to the 1990s with drivers licenses for motorcycles....The idea of limiting riders to less powerful bikes to reduce injuries when mistakes were made is a similar idea. On the face of it, it is sound and logical. So the method was - limiting riders to 250cc or less. Two big results here were larger riders were having to squeeze onto smaller bikes that did not fit or suit them- We could not ride a 350cc single trail bike (XL, DR, TT etc) or cruiser (LS400, GN350 etc) but we could ride a 250cc GP bike like a TZR or NSR, or RGV.. or others like GSXR250...CBR250R ...It meant learners were riding bikes that were NOT suited to learner riders and were not allowed on bikes that were well suited. (There is a newer system in place that while not perfect, is a huge improvement...)

I foresee this idea as being a step towards making EVERYONE pay for hunting amd if you look at the English model it rapidly become sso expensive only the very wealthy can afford to- That goes against everything Kiwi.


In truth, while you see many 'overseas hunters' there are not actually that many that it causes an issue. Most overseas visitors do not have easy access to firearms legally while here. It is possible but there is costs and time / proceses involved. And the easiest way it to tag along with a local or a guide which is either kiwis being good hosts or charge out rates for guides....

I think it would quickly become more hassel than its worth and it solves a problem that is not really a major issue. I think it would turn into a money pit of beaureaucracy that will keep justiying itself by making Kiwis pay to hunt.... I would rather the politicians (and it would be them who have to sort this) focus on essentials like Health sector, Education sector and Police sectors all of which are under funded due to wastefull money spending in non essental areas.

Looks like a good idea at first but long term we'd see
1/ NZers would start getting charged as well.
2/. Open hunting area's access would start to be closed off for foreign fee paying hunters.
3/ Most of the funds raised would probably go to F&B who would lobby DOC for more 1080 eradication projects.
Staus quo's looking pretty good

Im going to go slightly broader on topic for a bit. since coming south ive been doing a lot of work on finding new hunting areas. 3 times now Ive spoken to different helicopter companies and the message is almost identical and Ill summarise what they have said.

Not far away is an RHA. It's loaded in deer. They all say that if I just want to shoot deer, then Fly in there at any time other than the roar, when every valley is full of hunters. The heads are not great but as a generalisation everyone who gos in there shoots relatively poor stags. Yet bugger all people are bothering with the hinds. Ive been shown vid and photos of groups of deer that are way too big and numerous to be good for anyone. We know the result of that type of thing.

I suspect we actually need a comprehensive management system for such areas that places some emphasis on changing what we target, and maybe a tag system or such could be the way or part of it.

Or a fee to hunt the area that allows regulators to pay a chopper to do what we dont want too.

Originally Posted by Stocky

There are plenty I meet them often. In fact I meet more internationals than north islanders. Enough to cause issue no but I've met Canadians, Americans, Aussies, Germans, Danes and the list goes on.

Thanks for that. I've only come across three other hunters in the bush. All Kiwis. One pig hunter and one bow hunter in a spot close to home and another guy in the Kawekas during the roar. My experience is very different to yours. I guess the advantage of living in the worst place for hunting is that no one comes here!

Originally Posted by timattalon

Like a lot of things , On the face of it , the idea seems reasonable. But then when you dig in deeper, complications arise that require addressing then it gets complicated and more money is needed to administer this then it gets more complicated as interetations and definitions add up then you need more money...

EG ; What would an overseas hunter be defined as ? Someone who was not born here? Someone who does not live here? Someone who was born here but lives in another country (aussie maybe?) These all require answering before it progresses then you get some smart arse (there are always some) who will interet it a different way to suit them...

As an example go back to the 1990s with drivers licenses for motorcycles....The idea of limiting riders to less powerful bikes to reduce injuries when mistakes were made is a similar idea. On the face of it, it is sound and logical. So the method was - limiting riders to 250cc or less. Two big results here were larger riders were having to squeeze onto smaller bikes that did not fit or suit them- We could not ride a 350cc single trail bike (XL, DR, TT etc) or cruiser (LS400, GN350 etc) but we could ride a 250cc GP bike like a TZR or NSR, or RGV.. or others like GSXR250...CBR250R ...It meant learners were riding bikes that were NOT suited to learner riders and were not allowed on bikes that were well suited. (There is a newer system in place that while not perfect, is a huge improvement...)

I foresee this idea as being a step towards making EVERYONE pay for hunting amd if you look at the English model it rapidly become sso expensive only the very wealthy can afford to- That goes against everything Kiwi.


In truth, while you see many 'overseas hunters' there are not actually that many that it causes an issue. Most overseas visitors do not have easy access to firearms legally while here. It is possible but there is costs and time / proceses involved. And the easiest way it to tag along with a local or a guide which is either kiwis being good hosts or charge out rates for guides....

I think it would quickly become more hassel than its worth and it solves a problem that is not really a major issue. I think it would turn into a money pit of beaureaucracy that will keep justiying itself by making Kiwis pay to hunt.... I would rather the politicians (and it would be them who have to sort this) focus on essentials like Health sector, Education sector and Police sectors all of which are under funded due to wastefull money spending in non essental areas.

The English model is based on the large proportion of private land there. Instead it's worth looking at something more like the US model. Cheaper resident tags, yet in all honesty, the non resident tag is still reasonable as a percentage of what a trip to the us will cost in full.