Thread: Commercial vs Recreational Hunting in NZ

Waro is neccesary, and believe it or not it's not some kind of get rich quick scheme and most the operators that do it use it as a tool to keep cash flowing to make the finance payments on their machines, no waro equals less machines and higher prices for other users (ie:hunters), no waro also means DOC take on full responsibility for managing animal numbers and we all know what that means...
Every time I hear a "hunter" come up with some wonderful story about how a machine came and chased away all "their deer" I do have to wonder how much exaggeration bought on by a acute case of butthurt is involved. There are plenty of animals to go round now more so than ever, if you can't find one and need to blame the machines for your shortcomings maybe take up golf? The way it's been done doesn't need to change at all, there's a few attitudes out there that need a shake up though you guys bagging it seem like the type that moan about politics when you don't actually understand politics, moan about business when you don't understand business etc.

Originally Posted by Mooseman

The problem I see in reducing waro operations will only cause poaching. Tough penalties may deter some, those that need the machine running and bringing in deer will be less cooperative with reduced hunting areas and hinds only, the money is in the bigger(stags)animals. The other side of the coin is animal numbers will increase in remote areas and eventually trophy quality will suffer.
Unfortunately the mighty dollar dictates everything in this world today.
Hopefully the Game Council can address a lot of these issues so everyone's interests are taken care of.

I think poaching in a helicopter should be treat like anyone poaching on foot regarding fit and proper person requirements.

If the punishment is substantial it will go a long way to reducing the risk of it happening. It is just a wet bus ticket now.





Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by R93

I think poaching in a helicopter should be treat like anyone poaching on foot regarding fit and proper person requirements.

If the punishment is substantial it will go a long way to reducing the risk of it happening. It is just a wet bus ticket now.





Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Good point
Unfortunately you pay more poaching on foot than in a chopper these days been there done that in both cases more than once.
As for waro it does a good job I have no problem with it, deer numbers are out of control around these parts so something must give.
As with ground hunters its the same with chopper pilots a bad few letting us all down

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by BRADS

Good point
Unfortunately you pay more poaching on foot than in a chopper these days been there done that in both cases more than once.
As for waro it does a good job I have no problem with it, deer numbers are out of control around these parts so something must give.
As with ground hunters its the same with chopper pilots a bad few letting us all down

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

It makes no sense eh?


I have no problem with waro either.... Obviously


But a lot can be done to identify a potential trophy if not obvious from the machine before shooting.
You would know yourself, even if a stag has just cast there are a lot tells and it just takes a bit of time to see them.

If deer are in the tussock you can herd them anywhere you want generally.
The odd smart hind will make it hard.

I don't see why ether banning waro in certain areas or have savvy crews leave the good ones can't be mandatory in certain areas.

All a pipe dream I know but it's good discussing it.


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Is herding the same as hazing?

Do you think the days of savvy crews are gone R93?
I don't say that lightly as 2 good mates still have birds doing venison recovery in non busy times
One has a very successful business one is not so big time.
In my experience the guys hating on waro in these parts can't hunt there way out of paper bag so blame waro for the lack of animals. When you go out for 3 days and see 70 odd deer you realise there's some culling needed.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Gibo

Is herding the same as hazing?

No. At least not as I understand it.

You can quietly push deer to a more suitable place to shoot and recover them. Generally up hill and you can sit off them a fair way.
Thar and chamois are not as quiet (lack of a better word) as deer.


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Gibo....yes and no.... herding is like shepherd rounding up sheep in a paddock with his strong eyed heading dog and putting them through the gate
hazing is when the two german shepherds and the foxy from down the road come in under the fence and take to worrying.
both use machine to move animals one is controled to get them into/out of area quietly the other is used to run them to a standstill.

november to may is a taboo time to take animals from the air...... 90% of issue solved.....takes the velvet out of equation and leaves animals to get on with breeding. shooting hinds only in areas would be nice but bar having controls in place like they do in fishing industry to police it...well it becomes hard....
you could do it at chiller end I guess...no stags allowed to be sold????
which brings up another possible solution ,some sort of quota system but that will all be $$$$$$$ so just about as bad.

Originally Posted by BRADS

Do you think the days of savvy crews are gone R93?
I don't say that lightly as 2 good mates still have birds doing venison recovery in non busy times
One has a very successful business one is not so big time.
In my experience the guys hating on waro in these parts can't hunt there way out of paper bag so blame waro for the lack of animals. When you go out for 3 days and see 70 odd deer you realise there's some culling needed.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Definitely. I was lucky and started out shooting and then flew for a team that have been doing it since the sixties.

I learned a lot from them. But they have forgotten more than I will ever know.

They no longer fly. I think the experience is dwindling, especially here in the south. There still a handful of experienced guys doing it but they are getting on in age.


I pity anyone who gets a licence and thinks they can just go and make a living on venison
They will either go broke or end up a smoking hole in the ground.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Cheers

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

november to may is a taboo time to take animals from the air...... 90% of issue solved.....takes the velvet out of equation and leaves animals to get on with breeding. shooting hinds only in areas would be nice but bar having controls in place like they do in fishing industry to police it...well it becomes hard....
you could do it at chiller end I guess...no stags allowed to be sold????
which brings up another possible solution ,some sort of quota system but that will all be $$$$$$$ so just about as bad.

Still good ideas whether hard to implement or not.



Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

More RHAs esp around then main divide,
Limits on what can be shot
A fucking big fine and complete life ban of the person caught poaching, not the company so they can just start another, life ban for the individual
There are plenty of other ways to make money with a chopper rather than shooting the fuck out of our valued herds


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Smiddy

More RHAs esp around then main divide,
Limits on what can be shot
A fucking big fine and complete life ban of the person caught poaching, not the company so they can just start another, life ban for the individual
There are plenty of other ways to make money with a chopper rather than shooting the fuck out of our valued herds


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bloody oath on the life ban.
Like you say they can get anyone to get a concession for them and work off that they way it is now.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Ryan Songhurst, to say quote "There are plenty of animals to go round now more so than ever, if you can't find one and need to blame the machines for your shortcomings maybe take up golf?" is simply untrue. Up until Waro started up again last February with a vengeance, it had been starting to look very promising with a whole generation of stags being allowed to get some age on them. We are fast degenerating into how bad it was in the dark days of the 80s in a lot of areas.
There are plenty of areas that have had an absolute pasting in the last year, with a whole generation of chopper naive deer since Waro was last viable a number of years ago that have been sitting ducks. I have no issues with them shooting a good number of hinds and cull stags, but of course they have been targeting the big stags in some of our premier trophy bloodline areas, destroying them for another who knows how many years - all for a short term financial gain. I get sent so many pics on a weekely basis of what they are shooting, and it makes you sick. Just this week another massive 16 pointer out of the Canterbury Alps. The operators are largely only doing what the system allows them to do, so I'm not blaming them.
But this boom and bust scenario has to stop, which was sposed to be addressed in the promised Waro review which DoC have now reneged on.
The current system is simply not fair to the majority of public land users, nor sustainable for the Waro guys.