Thread: Defending hunters

Originally Posted by Gibo

You can only defend the hunters you know and have hunted with. There are plenty dickheads that kill for fun or are unethical or just plain dont care. This also goes the other way and when people generalise hunters into the one group it pisses the hunters off. Head down bum up, do what you think is right

The fact that Sandra Kyle's article is a complete generalisation is actually a strong argument against her and what she stands for.

By writing in the style she has she has actually managed to get most Kiwis to think about the fact that a LOT of hunters do not fit the mould that she says they do - and in so doing has highlighted herself as a stupid radical (like most of the SAFE organisation).

Originally Posted by steven

Interestingly I came across a hunter the other day who is un-employed and hunts to put decent quality meat, venison/rabbit etc on his family's table, so I'll disagree with you here.

Ok so there is one. He must live very close to his hunting area for the value of the meat he catches to be greater than the money he spends on gas driving out to get it. Thats assuming he already owns his equipment and values his time at $0 per hour.

Living in canterbury I couldn't get to an area where I could shoot a deer (or even a rabbit) for less than $50. $50 buys a lot of mince at pack n save.

I'm one of those who have a variable income of being self employed and hunting does provide meat during the months of no income what so ever and not knowing when things pick up. I live near to where I hunt and already have all the gear needed collected over many years so that is not a factor, besides most of it is not required. Fuel cost less than $4 return. You don't get much mince for $50, latest PNS price $10.98kg on sale, wow 5kg of fuck all. Do not speak for me or others on how I/we make ends meet.

Originally Posted by Slug

I'm one of those who have a variable income of being self employed and hunting does provide meat during the months of no income what so ever and not knowing when things pick up. I live near to where I hunt and already have all the gear needed collected over many years so that is not a factor, besides most of it is not required. Fuel cost less than $4 return. You don't get much mince for $50, latest PNS price $10.98kg on sale, wow 5kg of fuck all. Do not speak for me or others on how I/we make ends meet.

I wasn't aware I had offended you and I never questioned your right to put meat on the table. All I said is not many people in this country would be able to meat hunt for less than it costs to buy in the shop and I still stand by that opinion.

The real thing in question is a blokes right to go hunting in africa even if his target species looks cuddly and has a cute name.

i prefaced my opinion on if the things said to have been done were done ie baiting it out of a reserve and poor after wounding follow up.
trophy hunting is just as ligit as any hunting if practised to its best ethics ie animals past thier prime but still great examples of thier species or top specimens where there are plenty to take thier place.
the problem as with any hunting is that those exist who treat it like a investment and if the dont get what they paid for ie exact or over measurements or large numbers of say birds, then they feel cheated or dissapointed and totaly miss the rest of the experience that hunting is mostly about.??
i dont think we should condone bad behavior, if it has taken place, just for the appearence of solidarity and i dont think the ''we have enough critics without critising ourselves'' arguement flies either.hasnt bad behavior in the birding field been mostly stomped on by those in the same game and often same area.

I love the comments to Crimp's article.

This is genuis;

Comment ----

"Animals don't, can't and won't ever possess human attributes or qualities."

"What sort of nonsense is this? It's like farmers in the 70's saying animals don't feel pain. All mammals have complex social lives, families and fears just like people, if you doubt this you're just not up to speed. Hunting for anything other than food, i.e. hunting for sport is just for w******, sorry."

End Comment ---

If you can get an animal back home cleanly to process, I'd guestimate that's ~ $ 600 + of meat at the supermarket / butchers. Not the jizzy kind you get at PNS either. Agree deduct time and effort $/hr but add value $/hr for enjoyment @ rate of -$/hr at the pub ;-) and I think you have a net gain ...

Originally Posted by Dangerous Dan

If you can get an animal back home cleanly to process, I'd guestimate that's ~ $ 600 + of meat at the supermarket / butchers. Not the jizzy kind you get at PNS either. Agree deduct time and effort $/hr but add value $/hr for enjoyment @ rate of -$/hr at the pub ;-) and I think you have a net gain ...

id go further and say you had a priceless experience with a bonus meal or five thrown in.
a trophy legally taken in fair chase conditions in stunning scenery and a great example of its species would be a close 2nd

ihunt because i can -organic free range meat ambling along doin its own thing till oops it falls over dead.I proudly tell these anti wallies -you bastards preach organic shit so its organic -i kill it and harvest the organs. same as my moment of fame when i tooka load of sausage rolls to work for a unit do -well they werent just sausage cause ya see ye old canada goose makes mighty fine sausage rolls too!
Ya shoulda seen some of those anti mugs when on asking i innocently replied yep -I put canada goose breasts in my meat mix. fucking priceless i tell ya

National Geographic TV has also screened some excellent docos on the behaviour of lions in the wild .One which is still vivid in my mind was of a pride which had been under observation for a considerable time.
Anyhow the 6 lionesses had something in the order of 15 cubs between em and had established a nice base for the pride.
However the old male who it was assumed was the sire of most of em ,had popped his clogs due to old age.
In came three younger males .they singularly hunted down and killed I think about twelve cubs- The close ups of cubs with skulls crushed or torn to shreds were nauseating ,tempered only by the fact nature is in a lot of ways a cruel old bitch.
Anyhow the shocking thing was that by doing this it brings the lionesses on heat and these boys could bang away to their hearts content to repopulate the area with their own offspring.
Actually it wasnt that simple cause you guessed it a humungous brawl broke out amongst the laddies and shit did blood and fur fly before two got given the DCM(dont come monday) by the biggest of the three who looked like hed been through a drunken medical students dissection session with great gashes ,skin hangin off and a rip to the side of his face that would taken a large tin of bog to patch!

Now given that is screened in primetime .I wonder if our socially responsible activists would like to waltz into our local lion park with doggie in tow to show uncle Leo what nice civilized animals humans are and how to behave .. ??????????????????????.....................I havent even had a bloody TUIs yet!

Seriously ,If everyone condoned everyones behaviour society would fall apart.
Humans by virtue of being endowed with the most expansive form of reasoning are able to think through what actions they feel it is right for them to take,albeit that others and society as a whole may merely disagree or totally abhor such actions,and in turn articulate that to the individual,either by word or action whatever be the most "appropriate"(by virtue of that reasoning) form.
The lower mammal species etc etc etc show the cruder but more instinctive response of aggression to get the same point across.
Daryl crimps reference to that is in essence very valid.

saw something the same where invading prides males ganged up on the resident males [one at a time ]and literally tore them to pieces.
explained by the conservationists away as lions doing what they do.
but if we do what we,ve done for centuries, no matter whether we could survive without hunting or not ,its a outrage??
theres nothing as harsh or cruel as nature and what are we if not part of that nature?
i like to think as hunters we are a essential part of nature without the unneccesary cruelty .

Apparently the 3 main US air line are going to ban from their cargo the transport of any Africain big game trophies.
That is a bit of a shame because a greater number of the American clientele on safari are also going their to bring back a trophy to hang on the wall. That will be less money spent over there and also a good number deciding no to return anymore.

Friwi, the good doers of the world give a shit about dumb animals and don't think thru their actions, this outcry should be coming from the people where it happened, I don't think it is? But hey it looks good, listened to a couple of young announcers on the radio tonight decrying it as barbaric behaviour, in reality the would know shit from clay,

Originally Posted by Friwi

Apparently the 3 main US air line are going to ban from their cargo the transport of any Africain big game trophies.
That is a bit of a shame because a greater number of the American clientele on safari are also going their to bring back a trophy to hang on the wall. That will be less money spent over there and also a good number deciding no to return anymore.

Looks like the 4th largest airline might gain a few extra customers then.

Put them in a trailer and snap freeze them at 30,000 feet!