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Thread: Discussion on NZ Hunting moving forward - NZGuns

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Happy to fund hunters if they'll also help fund the maintenance on the ranges I shoot on.

    I'll advocate for hunters and target shooters, put draw the line at paying for others if they won't pay for me.
    But they do already @Cyclops. I see the same names on your clubs membership as as I see on the NZDA membership down in Darfield.

    Cheers
    Phil
    Sideshow likes this.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody View Post
    Recognition of these introduced game animals as assets to be managed as permanent long term implies the necessity of a dedicated management structure and therefore a cost. Such cost would have to come partially from treasury and part from users. Because the game animals of concern are by and large on public (govt) land then establishment of a licence fee to assist in preservation and administration of the "asset herds" immediately gives the users / licence holders leverage at parliamentary level.
    To my mind, this is the only feasible way forward, but the extreme green factions within and outside govt know this and will try to block it ruthlessly in the same way they block meaningful alternatives to aerial poisoning. Game animal management under a specific body such as NZF&G and under a unique minister and stand alone Wildlife Act will have far more strength than the GAC or any othe NGO and is the most legislatable way to address DoC and MfE and the NGO's like forest and bird. Bear in mind that existing legislation claims govt ownership of wild animals, not hunters.

    This.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    The flaw in your argument is that you expect all shooter tos pay for advocacy for only one aspect of shooting.
    By contributing financially to COLFO I put my money into a group that advocates for all shooters.

    Honestly, as I've written previously, I support hunters but not with my hard earned money.
    I don't expect hunters to fund target shooters like me and can't understand with others think I should fund hunters.
    It isn't about working together, it's about being fair and reasonable.

    I'll work with and for hunters, target shooters, sports shooters, for fair rules and legislation that benefit all.
    @Cyclops - mate, I never even mentioned hunters in my post! You, however, seem to have the 'us' vs 'them' thing down to a fine art! What I think would work is a single organisation - COLFO seems to fit the bill at present - that every firearm owner will support financially, and gun shops come on board as well with a donation from every dollar spent on guns and ammo, to create a monster that cannot be ignored by government. Reading your post, I actually think you and I are on the same page.
    Last edited by Bol Tackshin; 24-12-2020 at 12:50 PM.

  4. #49
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    Yes , that should then encourage a political lobby and lead to legislation creation they way we need it.
    Bol Tackshin likes this.
    Summer grass
    Of stalwart warriors splendid dreams
    the aftermath.

    Matsuo Basho.

  5. #50
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    Quoted from the article

    "Hunters are seen as an insignificant minority and by lack of organisation, or perhaps a mindset that has been unwilling to change we have been divided which makes us easy to sweep aside."

    Nicole McKee's maiden speech on entering parliament was a breath of fresh air. Will be watching her progress with interest. Only hope we as a disorganised rabble have at the moment
    Rees and Shadowsol like this.

  6. #51
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Waimata View Post
    Good article, I like the way you think.

    To my mind there is a major contradiction between hunters and ecologists. The hunter has a vested interest in maintaining the animal populations, and is focused on sustainable meat collection. The ecologist/greenie is focused on sustainable biodiversity/forest health, and has a vested interest in removing feral 'pest' species. Finding common ground can be very challenging, but is essential to avoid the green rain future.

    So the obvious solution would appear to be to maintain pest populations at a level suited to allow healthy forest biodiversity. .
    well a few years back local council got all excited over small patch of ground,it has some rather rare types of grasses in it..being swamped by non native grasses ,so they ASKED me if I would put sheep in to graze it....block devided in half....the idea was to graze one half,not the other and work out what density of sheep per ha was GOOD for keeping reserves health and lower fire risk etc.... all went well and I built up sheep numbers as requested...then we got dry year and loads of rabbits in felled trees....the grass got eaten down in parts hard,not so much in others ...then the greenie element decided sheep eating too much other shrubbery so all had to go...NOW
    the whole idea of finding balance abandoned at first hurdle..I was left with small mob of sheep and no big area to hold them.....still had grazing on couple of small reserves so didnt have to slaughter them all.....
    it really opened my eyes to how short sighted the twig n twitter element can be...
    Ben Waimata and XR500 like this.

  7. #52
    Member Inder's Avatar
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    As an outsider and from a country which effectively banned almost all hunting and currently on the verge of loosing guns. All kind of shooters hunters/non-hunters need to support each other in every possible way. Make no mistake, if hunting is gone then will take your guns too asking reason why you need guns. Public at large has no idea about plinking shooting for fun etc. Only thing you will be left with ISSF or something like that.

    Get more girls into shooting/hunting. You will have next few generations who will shoot. Take out people, get your colleagues to shoot with you. I have taken out hardcore anti-guns people and believe me once they are on range and shoot few rounds they convert. \

    Charging hefty amounts to foreigners. Ha ha that is like making a lion taste blood. You can forget free/cheap hunting for locals then and then a time will come when only foreigners will be hunting. We have seen that in INDIA prior to hunting ban, wealthy Americans were doing all hunting then.

    Stop being apologetic about guns/hunting. You are not doing anything illegal. I like guns and hunting and if someone has a issue with that then they can go F themselves.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inder View Post
    As an outsider and from a country which effectively banned almost all hunting and currently on the verge of loosing guns. All kind of shooters hunters/non-hunters need to support each other in every possible way. Make no mistake, if hunting is gone then will take your guns too asking reason why you need guns. Public at large has no idea about plinking shooting for fun etc. Only thing you will be left with ISSF or something like that.

    Get more girls into shooting/hunting. You will have next few generations who will shoot. Take out people, get your colleagues to shoot with you. I have taken out hardcore anti-guns people and believe me once they are on range and shoot few rounds they convert. \

    Charging hefty amounts to foreigners. Ha ha that is like making a lion taste blood. You can forget free/cheap hunting for locals then and then a time will come when only foreigners will be hunting. We have seen that in INDIA prior to hunting ban, wealthy Americans were doing all hunting then.

    Stop being apologetic about guns/hunting. You are not doing anything illegal. I like guns and hunting and if someone has a issue with that then they can go F themselves.
    +1 What this man says.....

    Cheers
    Phil
    Woody and Inder like this.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inder View Post
    As an outsider and from a country which effectively banned almost all hunting and currently on the verge of loosing guns. All kind of shooters hunters/non-hunters need to support each other in every possible way. Make no mistake, if hunting is gone then will take your guns too asking reason why you need guns. Public at large has no idea about plinking shooting for fun etc. Only thing you will be left with ISSF or something like that.

    Get more girls into shooting/hunting. You will have next few generations who will shoot. Take out people, get your colleagues to shoot with you. I have taken out hardcore anti-guns people and believe me once they are on range and shoot few rounds they convert. \

    Charging hefty amounts to foreigners. Ha ha that is like making a lion taste blood. You can forget free/cheap hunting for locals then and then a time will come when only foreigners will be hunting. We have seen that in INDIA prior to hunting ban, wealthy Americans were doing all hunting then.

    Stop being apologetic about guns/hunting. You are not doing anything illegal. I like guns and hunting and if someone has a issue with that then they can go F themselves.
    This!

    absolutely correct. I shoot clays and targets as well as hunt. lets face it if we dont have viable hunting, we dont have firearms. The latest regulation change debacle should have proven that by and large we are all one group and can support each other and face the same threats. As well the game animal council can use its advisory role in support of firearms users in general, not just hunters.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inder View Post
    As an outsider and from a country which effectively banned almost all hunting and currently on the verge of loosing guns. All kind of shooters hunters/non-hunters need to support each other in every possible way. Make no mistake, if hunting is gone then will take your guns too asking reason why you need guns. Public at large has no idea about plinking shooting for fun etc. Only thing you will be left with ISSF or something like that.

    Get more girls into shooting/hunting. You will have next few generations who will shoot. Take out people, get your colleagues to shoot with you. I have taken out hardcore anti-guns people and believe me once they are on range and shoot few rounds they convert. \

    Charging hefty amounts to foreigners. Ha ha that is like making a lion taste blood. You can forget free/cheap hunting for locals then and then a time will come when only foreigners will be hunting. We have seen that in INDIA prior to hunting ban, wealthy Americans were doing all hunting then.

    Stop being apologetic about guns/hunting. You are not doing anything illegal. I like guns and hunting and if someone has a issue with that then they can go F themselves.
    Thought just occurred to me. @Inder has made a most salient point here. We need to encourage more girls/women into shooting and hunting.

    Why? Because men are seen to be the aggressive, rambo, angry aggressive types. We are the Red-Neck and guns to us are quite possibly viewed by a lot of the general public as just an extension of our Macho Manhood.

    Women are the nurturers and carers. If they participated in shooting or hunting the sport takes on a whole new perspective.

    Now I know there are already a reasonable number of women out there hunting and participating in firearm related sports, but maybe we need to encourage their participation and involvement more.

    I have come across very few people, who have been introduced to firearm sports and have not enjoyed them, women included. Some have continued, others whilst enjoying the experience have not continued for many reasons or other more pressing priorities and/or responsibilities.

    There can be a barrier to women also ....it is a very male, macho orientated world. I have a two women colleagues who are both ex-army and would both enjoy carrying on in some range work but they have both admitted that it is the over all boring machoism- their words - that often goes with a lot of the disciplines.....possibly hunting at the forefront.

    Look at our anti-gun lobbyists. What sex, from my general observation, figures prominently in it? Women. The nurturers, the carers....wanting to keep their families safe.

    Who are the most prominent in the pro-gun lobby? Men....the aggressors, the angry violent ones.

    OK.......some of my statements here are a little over simplified, but it is to draw a big picture with broad brush stokes.

    Am I making any sense?

    Let's have your thoughts.

    Cheers
    Phil
    Sideshow and Inder like this.

  11. #56
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
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    taking the girls out hunting and or shooting is a load of fun..... my girls know how to shoot but BOTH are cack eyed ..left eye dominant and right handed so trying to get them to line anything up is problimatic....might just HAVE TO fit red lazer and be done with it LOL.
    Phil_H likes this.

  12. #57
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    I'd hate to see us get locked out of public land hunting. I also dont like how lots of foreigners specifically (pre-covid) come here to hunt public land.
    I think non citizens should have to engage a guide and primarily be restricted to private land.
    The best way forward is to join political parties so our voices are heard.


    Sent from my SM-G390Y using Tapatalk

  13. #58
    Member Ben Waimata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky Duck View Post
    well a few years back local council got all excited over small patch of ground,it has some rather rare types of grasses in it..being swamped by non native grasses ,so they ASKED me if I would put sheep in to graze it....block devided in half....the idea was to graze one half,not the other and work out what density of sheep per ha was GOOD for keeping reserves health and lower fire risk etc.... all went well and I built up sheep numbers as requested...then we got dry year and loads of rabbits in felled trees....the grass got eaten down in parts hard,not so much in others ...then the greenie element decided sheep eating too much other shrubbery so all had to go...NOW
    the whole idea of finding balance abandoned at first hurdle..I was left with small mob of sheep and no big area to hold them.....still had grazing on couple of small reserves so didnt have to slaughter them all.....
    it really opened my eyes to how short sighted the twig n twitter element can be...
    The ecologists get just as upset about non-native plant invasion of native biodiversity as they do about feral animals. Perhaps what we need to do is find some definitive examples of feral deer preferentially grazing exotic 'weedy' species invading otherwise native ecological regions to prove how essential it is to maintain both feral animals as well as hunting control mechanisms to keep them at the correct level?
    Micky Duck likes this.

  14. #59
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    I doubt that would go anywhere. In fact, would be inclined to establish vigorous non invasive exotics to slow erosion and accelerate and assist native flora succession. Anethema to the purists though.
    Summer grass
    Of stalwart warriors splendid dreams
    the aftermath.

    Matsuo Basho.

  15. #60
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
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    the single biggest issue I can see going forward is lack of access to plink type shoot....... a big open safe area where its ok to shoot is getting harder and harder to find....
    Steve123 likes this.

 

 

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