Thread: DOC land - The real Hunters bragging rights?

Originally Posted by Mrfants

As I get more into hunting, it becomes obvious to me, that there are two types of hunters. Those that hunt and get animals on Doc land and those that have access to farm/private land, for their successful kills.

When I started hunting around 18 months ago, I saw so many hunters showing photos of multiple deer hunted and bagged in an evening, let alone a 2-3 day trip.

One guy I know (3 guys hunted in total), had 7 deer gutted and on the back of their utes within 5 hours. I thought this looks great!

As I plod through acres and acres of Doc land without seeing so much as a single animal, I now realise that the reality is a lot different.

I’m not against people getting easy access to game on private or farmers land whatsoever. I think it’s fantastic. But is there a case to be made that someone who can hunt successfully and get their meat on Doc land are really the true hunters?

I know this is different depending on where you’re located in the country, however from talking to a lot of other hunters, it just doesn’t seem as easy as what I thought it was going to be.

Things like Helicopter Culls and 1080 drops seem to be wiping out a lot of deer, at least in the areas that I normally Hunt.

What are others thoughts and experiences on this? I’m not trying to create any derisiveness about hunting on different types of land, but it sure would be good to at least see an animal let alone shoot one on Doc land!

Ps - Am absolutely loving hunting and will continue my strolls through the barren lands ever hoping to spot at least a rabbit …

You should tag along with another hunter for some tips down there. As up here you can see lots of deer in a day on DOC land. And I've been down south and I reckon you guys have a lot more deer than we do.

Maybe you are just looking in the wrong spots? But you are right... A lot of hunting on Farms is just target shooting. For example, a friends son shot 53 in one hunt the other evening. All left where they fell as they are pests.. And that isn't hunting.

Originally Posted by Mrfants

As I get more into hunting, it becomes obvious to me, that there are two types of hunters. Those that hunt and get animals on Doc land and those that have access to farm/private land, for their successful kills.

When I started hunting around 18 months ago, I saw so many hunters showing photos of multiple deer hunted and bagged in an evening, let alone a 2-3 day trip.

One guy I know (3 guys hunted in total), had 7 deer gutted and on the back of their utes within 5 hours. I thought this looks great!

As I plod through acres and acres of Doc land without seeing so much as a single animal, I now realise that the reality is a lot different.

I’m not against people getting easy access to game on private or farmers land whatsoever. I think it’s fantastic. But is there a case to be made that someone who can hunt successfully and get their meat on Doc land are really the true hunters?

I know this is different depending on where you’re located in the country, however from talking to a lot of other hunters, it just doesn’t seem as easy as what I thought it was going to be.

Things like Helicopter Culls and 1080 drops seem to be wiping out a lot of deer, at least in the areas that I normally Hunt.

What are others thoughts and experiences on this? I’m not trying to create any derisiveness about hunting on different types of land, but it sure would be good to at least see an animal let alone shoot one on Doc land!

Ps - Am absolutely loving hunting and will continue my strolls through the barren lands ever hoping to spot at least a rabbit …

I share similar sentiments, not necessarily in a resentful way and I do recognise that judging a hunter by the location they hunt does them absolutely no credit. However, it is definitely easy to view farm hunting as 'simple' compared to public land hunting from the outside looking in. I also have no real farm/private land contacts, mostly due to understanding that getting and keeping permission to access private land requires significant time and effort to acquire and then maintain. Building and keeping a good relationship with landholders takes time, and I personally think that if I was a farmer I'd want to really get to know a bugger who's running around my property with a rifle. I just can't give that the energy that it deserves, nor do I even have a suitable vehicle for getting around on a farm which is half the reason to do so - covering lots of ground efficiently and being able to get a whole animal out. Frankly if I were to get onto farmland, I would probably be only trying to chase bunnies with a rimfire.

It certainly takes time to learn. In the first two years of my hunting I wandered the bush solo for several trips seeing nothing. Got invited to a roar block in Haast with some very seasoned hunters (a rough introduction to the joys of being cold and wet) Joined the local deerstalkers and got onto an organised animal control hunt where I got my first deer. Later on I repeated this and got several in one morning (right place, right time, good numbers) and absorbed a bit from a very seasoned bush hunter but only a small fraction of what he knows. I've spent nearly 5 years visiting the same patch of public land close to home and it has an access road right to the top of the mountain... Very well travelled by locals out sight seeing, running their dogs, pig hunting, and often spot-lit by those who choose to do so. It took me 4 years to even see a deer there, and then one day I sat on a knob in the late evening sun to get out of the windy side of the ridge and saw a spiker doing pretty much the same. Another time up there I drove right to the top to find the wind blowing witches off their broomsticks and decided it was a bust, got down out of the wind and stopped the car to check a promising gully; 50m off the track in public land was a likely patch of bush and behold there was another young one sneaking out.

I've bush bashed, walked riverbeds and watched slips at dawn and dusk, I've visited huts and checked the visitor books for clues (some hunters note what they found where, others leave a colorful up yours about not paying for the hut and little else) I've read books and watched youtube. I think like many before me, I've learnt as much or more through failed attempts as I have through success. The thing I've found hardest is moving to NZ and starting to hunt in my 30's when most (but not all) are about 20 years ahead in experience. Asking for tips, areas, to tag along if others are heading out - might as well pull my own teeth. Met a really good bloke through the deerstalkers who is a highly skilled bush hunter and he definitely helped me along, and after a few years had one or two other hunters whisper about handy creeks to try for good numbers but its definitely not been plain sailing to success.

A couple of things I've learnt that others here are echoing:

1. Altitude means options, but tops doesn't always mean deer. They are where they are, and sometimes it just takes repeated trips to the same patch of bush to figure it out.
2. You can march yourself 5km into the public bush, and crash about and not see anything. The seasoned hunter will probably be hiding in the bush and hear the amateur go on past, shoot a deer not 500m from where everybody parks up and have it boned out and gone before we get back.
2a. Movement, movement, movement. It gives us all away. The best thing I've ever heard is "Ever seen a crocodile sneak up on you? Move like a croc. Imperceptible, calm, quiet, practically still." Good bush advice, still handy in the open.
3. Off the back of 2a, I've lain down for an afternoon nap in the sun in that lazy time between midday and mid arvo, and then sat up and seen deer moving around without a care in the world. Relax, hunt lazy, take the pressure off and let the world go by. Almost every deer I've identified and shot has been when I'm not focusing too hard on 'hunting.' If deer are around and you've got plenty of country to look at, doing sweet FA is a good way to let yourself and the land relax into the natural rhythm of the day.
4. Know what they eat and where they sleep/hide from nasty weather, hard to do in the bush but vital for all hunting to not waste time in the wrong places.

Originally Posted by Mrfants

Thanks for the tip. We did st james last weekend 3 days and didn’t see a deer. Day 2 another 5 hunters came in so it got a bit crowded.
I did see a rabbit, some Canadian geese and a couple wild cats, so I thought I was the nuts to be able to spot those ��

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I can't quantify this as truth, but myself and a workmate have passed through the Molesworth a time or two for jobs. When talking to an old hand on the Molesworth (been there 25 years) his words were - "No deer on the St James anymore, not since they pulled the grazing out of there." His definition of many deer may be a little different to ours though, as he also said that seeing a dozen before breakfast from the back of his horse was low numbers.

Have you hunted the Lake Sumner RHA? Heli-activity is prevented in there. I was up the Sylvia tops before the roar and can confirm deer numbers are not huge but worth the effort.

I'm similar to you in that I've only been hunting for a couple of years. I mostly hunt on DOC blocks but have also had the privilege to be allowed to hunt on a couple of stations a couple of times. Station hunting seems to be more reliable for bringing home the bacon so to speak but I'd add that this is I feel mostly due to "local knowledge" of where the deer will most likely be, so there's far less guess work involved.

It's my opinion (and I stress that) based on my experience that hunting DOC blocks will sharpen the skills. I will spend a certain amount of time using google earth to identify likely spots for deer to be and that skill seems to be coming along nicely as on the last few hunts I've found some good sign and seen animals (but away the fuck over there with a series of guts and ridges to navigate to get to them, with lack of time being my main limiting factor)

Having said that, time on stations where I've successfully put spotting, stalking and shooting an animal has definitely helped things click into place and every hunt is a learning opportunity.......such as ALWAYS AND I MEAN ALWAYS, yes, even if you're going for a shit, keep your rifle within reach....ask me how I learned this lol

Keep at it, patience is I think the primary requisite to developing as a good hunter. Read what books you can, talk to others and if you're not a member already, join your local Deer Stalkers, they are generally a friendly bunch and the right convo with the right person may well lead to going out with someone experienced who will be able to guide you and point you in the right direction, being the person that got someone onto their "first" is a really gratifying experience and I've been fortunate to do that and I know plenty of hunters are keen to help newcomers.....but you're the one who's got to put yourself out there and make approaches

this would have to be one of the most bull shit pieces put on this forum - who really gives a crap where your deer come from - really DOC or private its shooting deer - bringing meat home maybe a head - is that not more important - the experience - a few beers after the hunt - a camp fire good mates - later trying out the steak on a bbq - bleating about where it came from is bullshit - bloody hell you buggers get real

Originally Posted by Jt89

I share similar sentiments, not necessarily in a resentful way and I do recognise that judging a hunter by the location they hunt does them absolutely no credit. However, it is definitely easy to view farm hunting as 'simple' compared to public land hunting from the outside looking in. I also have no real farm/private land contacts, mostly due to understanding that getting and keeping permission to access private land requires significant time and effort to acquire and then maintain. Building and keeping a good relationship with landholders takes time, and I personally think that if I was a farmer I'd want to really get to know a bugger who's running around my property with a rifle. I just can't give that the energy that it deserves, nor do I even have a suitable vehicle for getting around on a farm which is half the reason to do so - covering lots of ground efficiently and being able to get a whole animal out. Frankly if I were to get onto farmland, I would probably be only trying to chase bunnies with a rimfire.

It certainly takes time to learn. In the first two years of my hunting I wandered the bush solo for several trips seeing nothing. Got invited to a roar block in Haast with some very seasoned hunters (a rough introduction to the joys of being cold and wet) Joined the local deerstalkers and got onto an organised animal control hunt where I got my first deer. Later on I repeated this and got several in one morning (right place, right time, good numbers) and absorbed a bit from a very seasoned bush hunter but only a small fraction of what he knows. I've spent nearly 5 years visiting the same patch of public land close to home and it has an access road right to the top of the mountain... Very well travelled by locals out sight seeing, running their dogs, pig hunting, and often spot-lit by those who choose to do so. It took me 4 years to even see a deer there, and then one day I sat on a knob in the late evening sun to get out of the windy side of the ridge and saw a spiker doing pretty much the same. Another time up there I drove right to the top to find the wind blowing witches off their broomsticks and decided it was a bust, got down out of the wind and stopped the car to check a promising gully; 50m off the track in public land was a likely patch of bush and behold there was another young one sneaking out.

I've bush bashed, walked riverbeds and watched slips at dawn and dusk, I've visited huts and checked the visitor books for clues (some hunters note what they found where, others leave a colorful up yours about not paying for the hut and little else) I've read books and watched youtube. I think like many before me, I've learnt as much or more through failed attempts as I have through success. The thing I've found hardest is moving to NZ and starting to hunt in my 30's when most (but not all) are about 20 years ahead in experience. Asking for tips, areas, to tag along if others are heading out - might as well pull my own teeth. Met a really good bloke through the deerstalkers who is a highly skilled bush hunter and he definitely helped me along, and after a few years had one or two other hunters whisper about handy creeks to try for good numbers but its definitely not been plain sailing to success.

A couple of things I've learnt that others here are echoing:

1. Altitude means options, but tops doesn't always mean deer. They are where they are, and sometimes it just takes repeated trips to the same patch of bush to figure it out.
2. You can march yourself 5km into the public bush, and crash about and not see anything. The seasoned hunter will probably be hiding in the bush and hear the amateur go on past, shoot a deer not 500m from where everybody parks up and have it boned out and gone before we get back.
2a. Movement, movement, movement. It gives us all away. The best thing I've ever heard is "Ever seen a crocodile sneak up on you? Move like a croc. Imperceptible, calm, quiet, practically still." Good bush advice, still handy in the open.
3. Off the back of 2a, I've lain down for an afternoon nap in the sun in that lazy time between midday and mid arvo, and then sat up and seen deer moving around without a care in the world. Relax, hunt lazy, take the pressure off and let the world go by. Almost every deer I've identified and shot has been when I'm not focusing too hard on 'hunting.' If deer are around and you've got plenty of country to look at, doing sweet FA is a good way to let yourself and the land relax into the natural rhythm of the day.
4. Know what they eat and where they sleep/hide from nasty weather, hard to do in the bush but vital for all hunting to not waste time in the wrong places.





I can't quantify this as truth, but myself and a workmate have passed through the Molesworth a time or two for jobs. When talking to an old hand on the Molesworth (been there 25 years) his words were - "No deer on the St James anymore, not since they pulled the grazing out of there." His definition of many deer may be a little different to ours though, as he also said that seeing a dozen before breakfast from the back of his horse was low numbers.

Have you hunted the Lake Sumner RHA? Heli-activity is prevented in there. I was up the Sylvia tops before the roar and can confirm deer numbers are not huge but worth the effort.

The time you took to write all above.You couldv walked 5k and shot a deer.Do some hunting instead of writing a short story.

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

this would have to be one of the most bull shit pieces put on this forum -

There are a lot of 500+ SCI wild deer being hunted in NZ ...according to my facebook feed.

Originally Posted by Hahn

There are a lot of 500+ SCI wild deer being hunted in NZ ...according to my facebook feed.

strangely enough there is an even bigger difference between a paid safari hunt on a fenced estate and private or DOC land too

Originally Posted by Trout

The time you took to write all above.You couldv walked 5k and shot a deer.Do some hunting instead of writing a short story.

I'm flattered you've taken the time to condescend my input, your advice will be added to the ever-growing pile of insincere gestures and flippant half-help I've been given since arriving here. Top shelf mate, cheers.

Originally Posted by dannyb

strangely enough there is an even bigger difference between a paid safari hunt on a fenced estate and private or DOC land too

yes and one escapee from a safari farm breeder shot in Hawkes Bay got tossed out of local competition wonder why

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

this would have to be one of the most bull shit pieces put on this forum - who really gives a crap where your deer come from - really DOC or private its shooting deer - bringing meat home maybe a head - is that not more important - the experience - a few beers after the hunt - a camp fire good mates - later trying out the steak on a bbq - bleating about where it came from is bullshit - bloody hell you buggers get real

Barry for Prime Minister! Straight up and honest, sounds like a good person. :-)

@Mrfants and your supporters.

You can’t learn to hunt on the internet and watching YouTube you only see edited and controlled outcomes. Learning animal behaviour takes time on the hills that can only be measured in years. I started hunting in 1980 and I’m still learning things every day I hunt. I usually hunt two days a week, on average.

I spent four years in Christchurch, hunting the areas I believe you hunt now, if I knew then what I knew now, I would have shot the biggest stag I’ve ever seen on a DOC block. I’m coming back down there in July, I wonder if his great grand kids are still around. :-)

If I’d seen your post earlier I’d offer to take you out hunting, but I’ve arranged to go with another mate. Maybe some other time, you’ll see that us ‘farm hunters’ can be ‘DOC hunters’, in fact you’ll see that you can be anything you want to be. :-)

Originally Posted by craigc

Barry for Prime Minister! Straight up and honest, sounds like a good person. :-)

he'd be unelectable.straight up and honest are traits the masses can't deal with.unfortunately.

Originally Posted by craigc

@Mrfants and your supporters.

You can’t learn to hunt on the internet and watching YouTube you only see edited and controlled outcomes. Learning animal behaviour takes time on the hills that can only be measured in years. I started hunting in 1980 and I’m still learning things every day I hunt. I usually hunt two days a week, on average.

I spent four years in Christchurch, hunting the areas I believe you hunt now, if I knew then what I knew now, I would have shot the biggest stag I’ve ever seen on a DOC block. I’m coming back down there in July, I wonder if his great grand kids are still around. :-)

If I’d seen your post earlier I’d offer to take you out hunting, but I’ve arranged to go with another mate. Maybe some other time, you’ll see that us ‘farm hunters’ can be ‘DOC hunters’, in fact you’ll see that you can be anything you want to be. :-)

Good comments. I get out all the time and use YouTube etc to gain insights into skills.
I will keep trying on doc land and hope to bag my first animal this year!


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I wonder if what grinds a few gears, is the notion that some forms of hunting are more 'real' than others. Are bow hunters more 'real' than those using firearms? It seems there is an implicit idea that the higher the perceived skill, the more of a 'real hunter' you are.

It's possibly more helpful to acknowledge that different forms of hunting require different skills sets, but fundamentally most people probably enjoy similar things about it - the planning, the gear, being in nature, the thrill of the stalk, providing food etc. Focusing on these factors likely does a better job of uniting people, rather than getting caught up in who the 'real hunters' are.

I've predominantly hunted DOC land, and was fortunate to have a couple of good mentors early on. I 'cut my teeth' in the Kaimais' which was hard work, tight bush hunting with limited success at first, but great for learning the fundamentals. These days I'm fortunate to knock about DOC land with good numbers and mostly hunt the open stuff. Maybe I'm less of a 'real hunter' now that I shoot the tops and not the bush? Who knows. I have however almost seen more deer in the last couple years than the previous 20, so where you hunt matters, but DOC land is definitely not the limiting factor to success.

Originally Posted by Jt89

I'm flattered you've taken the time to condescend my input, your advice will be added to the ever-growing pile of insincere gestures and flippant half-help I've been given since arriving here. Top shelf mate, cheers.

Excellent response.