DOC land - The real Hunters bragging rights?

@Mrfants

If you are considering whether paying for a block with some high likelyhood of success might be easier than putting in the miles, firstly it might be, but secondly it will give you some exposure to deer so that you can learn their habits, test how quiet you have to be to sneak up on them, how much you can move before they see you etc, what plants have been browsed.
Once you have some or most of that figured out, it is a lot easier to find them regardless if it's public or private land.

I am not in the top 10%, but I can say exposure to numbers helped me move from 'occasional lucky chance encounters' to 'occasionally predictable encounters'.

I started to hunt in the early 80"s when there were a lot of helicopters still working and deer were very scarce and hard to find. We would go for 4-5 days and spook a couple and were lucky if we shot one. I was lucky to have some very experienced hunters teach me how to read sign and what areas were more productive to hunt. Due to low deer numbers you learnt where and how to hunt.
I now hunt both public and private land. I will not hunt public in the roar and the North Island, not a dig but have had too many close calls.
I have never seen deer numbers on public land like I have in the past 2-3 years. I reflect back on the miles we did in the early days to now and I would never have believed the deer numbers would be as they now are. The other big change is that with the reduction in the venison export market, many landowners are far more likely to allow you on for a hunt as the perceived value of the deer no longer exists.
DOC or private, it's still magic to be out hunting in the environment we enjoy, the view there beats the view from the office any day.
I encourage anyone to get out and start hunting, it's something we in NZ are privileged with and often take for granted, be safe, be respectful and enjoy the unique opportunity we have here

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Originally Posted by MB

I don't know what makes a "true hunter" and not really interested either, but the OP makes a valid point. There is a gap between how hunting is portrayed on social media which is often relatively long range shooting on open farmland and bashing through the bush on DOC land. It can be disheartening for the beginner without access to the former.

For my own part, it takes me a day of travel by road to get anywhere near a good hunting area, then there's the walk in and out. I just don't have time to spend 3 days getting into a position where I might get a chance at an ting animal, so it's going to be a helicopter ride or paid access to private land a couple of times a year for me. That plus chasing goats around Northland bush is just about enough. More would be good, but that's the reality at the moment.

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I was just chatting to someone in nz and got told that wild dogs were running amock up in northland, there you go a new species of wolf to hunt.

@Mrfants forget the Minga, there are a heap of deer in the Sumner RHA but you will need to walk in and stay a night or two, Hope valley would be a good start, you should be seeing deer in St James. Locally you have Pinchgut, gets hunted a lot but not hunted well, grab water at the hut and go fly camp up the hill so your on the spot last/first light.

Its only a wrought if you are not evolved.
I too got envious of others success on private land and wonder how they would go on some more heavier hunted , poisoned, Arial shot DOC land but got over it around 35 years ago. Go out and learn the skills. No one became a top hunter in 18 months.
I congratulate every hunter that shoots a monster sika stag on private land but know my hard earned stags from Clements road ( probably the most hunted place around ) mean more in my eyes

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Originally Posted by longshot

@Mrfants

If you are considering whether paying for a block with some high likelyhood of success might be easier than putting in the miles, firstly it might be, but secondly it will give you some exposure to deer so that you can learn their habits, test how quiet you have to be to sneak up on them, how much you can move before they see you etc, what plants have been browsed.
Once you have some or most of that figured out, it is a lot easier to find them regardless if it's public or private land.

I am not in the top 10%, but I can say exposure to numbers helped me move from 'occasional lucky chance encounters' to 'occasionally predictable encounters'.

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Excellent I’ll have to look at maybe a group trip to keep costs down


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Originally Posted by outdoorlad

@Mrfants forget the Minga, there are a heap of deer in the Sumner RHA but you will need to walk in and stay a night or two, Hope valley would be a good start, you should be seeing deer in St James. Locally you have Pinchgut, gets hunted a lot but not hunted well, grab water at the hut and go fly camp up the hill so your on the spot last/first light.

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Thanks for the tip. We did st james last weekend 3 days and didn’t see a deer. Day 2 another 5 hunters came in so it got a bit crowded.
I did see a rabbit, some Canadian geese and a couple wild cats, so I thought I was the nuts to be able to spot those 🫣


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Originally Posted by SmokeyJason

I was just chatting to someone in nz and got told that wild dogs were running amock up in northland, there you go a new species of wolf to hunt.

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That's the Far North. It went off in the media a little while back. The farmer was asking for hunters to come and shoot the dogs in a coordinated fashion. Someone spotted an emu in the bush up there during the cull.

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Originally Posted by Mrfants

I’ve tried that a couple times but poss wrong areas - the small strip of doc land eg riverbeds is often wedged in between private land, but good point

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I would be wary using a centrefire in a riverbed with private either side these days, only takes one pissed off cocky. You mentioned Craigieburn, head in the north-eastern end and glass the bush edges in evening. You don't need to go far just know the block boundaries and follow the rules around tramping tracks

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Originally Posted by MB

That's the Far North. It went off in the media a little while back. The farmer was asking for hunters to come and shoot the dogs in a coordinated fashion. Someone spotted an emu in the bush up there during the cull.

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ha still some around I worked at Kaitaia DOC and we shot a few escaped ostrich and emu just south of Houhora damn good eating most were ostrich - there also a few reds around Kaimaumau swamp escapees but they were soon shot out

Go down Mailings Pass,nice spot to glass for deer.

I only hunt public as I don't know any farmers, I also take a break during the roar and start again opening weekend. I hunt weekdays as I took a job that is Friday to Sunday to try and mitigate meeting other hunters. I go solo and did not grow up around anyone who hunts. I rarely get lucky but I'm still out there enjoying myself.

Never had a Father at all.
But if anyone knew Jim Newman at Tisdalls PNth in the mid 60's, he was the man. You only need one key influencer and it builds from there.
My sons had me so they got off to a good start. Grandsons have their own Fathers' and me, so they are double blessed.
It helps.

Hunters hunt doc land
Shooters hunt farm land

I Do both but have recently returned to doc land as I want to become a hunter

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Originally Posted by 338MAN mk2

Its only a wrought if you are not evolved.
I too got envious of others success on private land and wonder how they would go on some more heavier hunted , poisoned, Arial shot DOC land but got over it around 35 years ago. Go out and learn the skills. No one became a top hunter in 18 months.
I congratulate every hunter that shoots a monster sika stag on private land but know my hard earned stags from Clements road ( probably the most hunted place around ) mean more in my eyes

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2nd that on Clements Rd

Lake Sumner RHA thank me later. This is for anyone else that’s wants a mission too. I’d regularly see 60-100 deer on this loop to the hut. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...479eaf4c6f.jpg


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Originally Posted by Jaro

I would be wary using a centrefire in a riverbed with private either side these days, only takes one pissed off cocky. You mentioned Craigieburn, head in the north-eastern end and glass the bush edges in evening. You don't need to go far just know the block boundaries and follow the rules around tramping tracks

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Didn’t shoot on the riverbed, walked up river and got onto doc land eventually (Topo 50 is great). Will try the other but believe there’s no shooting on eastern slopes?


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Originally Posted by Trout

Go down Mailings Pass,nice spot to glass for deer.

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We were right there last weekend for 3 days didn’t see a thing. I was with an experienced hunter - possibly the roar had sent them away?


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Originally Posted by Tahr

Never had a Father at all.
But if anyone knew Jim Newman at Tisdalls PNth in the mid 60's, he was the man. You only need one key influencer and it builds from there.
My sons had me so they got off to a good start. Grandsons have their own Fathers' and me, so they are double blessed.
It helps.

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Jim was one of a kind. So quietly spoken yet full of enthusiasm and knowledge that he was happy to share.

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Originally Posted by Mrfants

Didn’t shoot on the riverbed, walked up river and got onto doc land eventually (Topo 50 is great). Will try the other but believe there’s no shooting on eastern slopes?


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Attachment 274154


https://www.doc.govt.nz/map/index.html

You are going to have to walk and climb hills to be successful. Get away from anywhere that can be thermalled at night by lazy poachers from a quad/ute.

Personally I get more satisfaction from hunting DoC land. I see deer on my own farm almost every day but have no desire to shoot them, like on many farms it would be like shooting fish in a barrel, so not really hunting in my view.

Others see it differently and post stories of farm shot deer where there are obviously plenty to choose from, each to their own.

• I hunt both public and private land when I can — both have their challenges and rewards.
• Some of my hardest hunts have been on private blocks — ensuring absolutely clear firing zone while managing tricky terrain and difficult wind.
• And a few of my easiest meat hunts have surprisingly been on public.
• Public land can be tough — you never know who else has been in there or if there’s been heli activity.
• Keep at it — the animals are out there, just not always where you expect!

Just cause the are a lot of deer about just now doesn't make them any easier to hunt. Through cobbers I currently have a bit of private access, though I'm normally a Conservation land hunter, been at it since my first hard won deer in 1980. I'm pretty good at spotting game on the hill, but far from the sorta skills some guys I've hunted with have.

On the big station where we occasionally hunt usually its "goats only". Some time ago the Farmer asked us to shoot a deer for his BBQ, from a few he was seeing at the end of the airstrip. The boys went out with a thermal and there were 27 deer there. They missed haha!

Anyhoo we hunted goats on specific blocks the next few days, shot quite a few and I saw two fallow on another block. Coming down the faces right on dark I glassed from a good vantage point for the Reds on the end of the airstrip till after last light - didn't see a bloody thing.

Recently we were back there to cull deer, it was during the "croak" and roar so the animals were bunched up. We saw at least a 100 fallow and quite a few Reds, in places where on previous goat trips we hadn't seen any.

The point being the deer were always there, but even experienced hunters weren't necessarily spotting them, it takes persistence to gain the knowledge to " hunt" an area. Most of my hunting has been "armed tramping" and that's NOT really much good, I've seen half the South Is but would have shot a hell of a lot more deer if I'd concentrated on just one or two areas.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

There are not 2 types of hunters. There are many types of hunters, and many types of opportunities. Save your judgements for when you know the hunter. Where he hunts is of no consequence.

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100% agreed. Now more than ever we need to be united as hunters not divided by the means of which we hunt or where.

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Originally Posted by Mrfants

We were right there last weekend for 3 days didn’t see a thing. I was with an experienced hunter - possibly the roar had sent them away?


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15yrs ago I walked 12k up the river from the bottom of the pass.Early morning,seen nothing.Sleeped in truck that night at bottom of pass.Next morning it was drizzly rain,as I drove my way up mailings.Seen 4 deer sheltering under trees from rain,near the top of pass.There was 2 big stags sheltering on bush edge 400yds away,I was very tempted to blast away,but I no spare dry cloths.So just watched them trot up the hill and ly down in the rain.They looked magnificent stag,I was just pleased to see them.
So I walked about 24k the day befor,seen nothing.Next day from truck seen 6 deer.Iv was camp down mailings when the Kaikora quake hit,well that shook the old truck and me.The valley just rumbled.I was a bit concerned for my safety for a bit.Grrrr

The thing i like about shooting public land is that its available to everyone anytime, all it costs is a bit of effort and a lot of sweat.

And if you happen to shoot something you're proud of it's compounded by the thought that this animal has managed to survive freezing winters, drought, waro, 1080 drops, and of course other hunters!

Well I must say that as one of many on here who learned to hunt as a teenager in the 1980s you young guys have nothing to complain about.
Every deer that made the slightest mistake was cleaned up and flown out right under our noses.

The tahr were nearly exterminated.

We made lots of trips and lots of mistakes to see only a handful of animals and maybe shoot the odd one.

Numbers now in the South Island on private and DoC land are ridiculously high.
If you do a multi day hunt and don't see anything you are probably doing something very wrong.

Those of us who learned the craft of Hunting in the 80s and stuck with it got pretty good at it because we had to.
There are some very technically proficient Shooters out there now.
But that doesn't mean they will be a successful hunter.

I shoot way more than my fair share of deer every year.
DoC and Private land.
But it's all hunting and not shooting to me.

There should be none of this bitterness towards guys who shoot / hunt on private land.
It has to be done.
Period

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Originally Posted by XR500

Jim was one of a kind. So quietly spoken yet full of enthusiasm and knowledge that he was happy to share.

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@XR500 I worked at Tisdalls after school and during the holidays for 2 years. Jim took me under his wing. Took me hunting in the Ruahines (Pari and Rangi). Took me to the tramping club and on club trips. Huge influence

Private generally requires shooting to be successful,doc requires hunting.any deer taken in the bush by a hunter without a dog is real a “hunting”trophy than any trophy stag shot on private.I enjoy both but a bush stalked deer will make you fizz!

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Originally Posted by gimp

You are going to have to walk and climb hills to be successful. Get away from anywhere that can be thermalled at night by lazy poachers from a quad/ute.

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... or jetboat, even (especially the inflatables).

The permitted use of thermals on public land could well be a bit of a game-changer, it's not just the areas accessible to motorised transport that can get picked over now.

Anyway, private land hunting is great, but all the above adds another challenge to the hunt on public land and I like it best for that reason. But I haven't turned my nose up at a private land hunt yet and doubt I ever will.

It's a pretty spot on observation as a general rule.

I find public land hunting is a lot harder and if you are trying to find your own spots there are a lot of trips that don't yield anything other than good mental time in the bush and some fitness (which are worth a lot).

After a few unsuccessful trips on public land I sometimes opt for the odd paid farm deer to help boost morale and the freezer (can still work out cheaper than buying meat if you find someone with reasonable prices). The doc venison does taste a lot sweeter, but that might just be the 1080 talking ;-)

If you are worried about it go door knocking, they can only say no.
Sometimes deer are on properties you would never guess and not too far from home, knock, ask and you just never know.

Golden rule, if you do get on private land respect it, leave gates as you find them, let farmer know if you see anything wrong like a dead animal etc.

And a box of beer or a feed or 2 of whitebait if you catch some doesn't hurt either.

The way I look at it wherever you hunt you need the odds on your side not the animals. By that I mean every gully you look into you need the advantage, in that you need to know the animal is there before the animal knows your there. Then you have time, and if you have time you can make some good decisions. Mr Fants I notice you hunt open country mostly. So there’s 2 things you need to do I reckon. One thing is get above the animals you are trying to find. Two reasons, animals look down hill about 90% of the time because that’s where 90% of lazy people are, and secondly animals are way easier to see from above. You are looking down into the scrub, and you can see between the bushes and you will see more of the animal (the body) not just the top of the neck and head peering down at you from above. Secondly you want to be above them looking down into areas where they are feeding (gully heads, little basins, slips anywhere there’s green shiny grass) in the first two hours and last hour of light cause that’s when they are standing up feeding and moving around. That makes them so much easier to pick up. Animals sitting down are soooo much harder to pick up. So do the figures, you probably need to be walking in the dark a lot or camping high. I do the latter. It’s about being in the right place at the right time and those places are usually where other people haven’t already done over.

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Originally Posted by Mararoa

The way I look at it wherever you hunt you need the odds on your side not the animals. By that I mean every gully you look into you need the advantage, in that you need to know the animal is there before the animal knows your there. Then you have time, and if you have time you can make some good decisions. Mr Fants I notice you hunt open country mostly. So there’s 2 things you need to do I reckon. One thing is get above the animals you are trying to find. Two reasons, animals look down hill about 90% of the time because that’s where 90% of lazy people are, and secondly animals are way easier to see from above. You are looking down into the scrub, and you can see between the bushes and you will see more of the animal (the body) not just the top of the neck and head peering down at you from above. Secondly you want to be above them looking down into areas where they are feeding (gully heads, little basins, slips anywhere there’s green shiny grass) in the first two hours and last hour of light cause that’s when they are standing up feeding and moving around. That makes them so much easier to pick up. Animals sitting down are soooo much harder to pick up. So do the figures, you probably need to be walking in the dark a lot or camping high. I do the latter. It’s about being in the right place at the right time and those places are usually where other people haven’t already done over.

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Good advice there. I would say that just because it's "close" and hunted a lot (I'm thinking of the lazy buggers with thermals on quad bikes here) doesn't mean all the deer there are shot. Really popular spots right at road ends or adjoining farmland (especially if there is crop about) often produce deer for a thoughtful hunter.

If you pursue animals you are a hunter, in fighting in any pursuit or hobby is just dumb, but it happens a lot for whatever reason. I hunt both and the main thing you'll find is the longer you hunt public land the bigger data base you build on where to go and where not to go, public land is more about the adventure and private is good for filling the freezer. 🤙🏻

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Originally Posted by Mrfants

As I get more into hunting, it becomes obvious to me, that there are two types of hunters. Those that hunt and get animals on Doc land and those that have access to farm/private land, for their successful kills.

When I started hunting around 18 months ago, I saw so many hunters showing photos of multiple deer hunted and bagged in an evening, let alone a 2-3 day trip.

One guy I know (3 guys hunted in total), had 7 deer gutted and on the back of their utes within 5 hours. I thought this looks great!

As I plod through acres and acres of Doc land without seeing so much as a single animal, I now realise that the reality is a lot different.

I’m not against people getting easy access to game on private or farmers land whatsoever. I think it’s fantastic. But is there a case to be made that someone who can hunt successfully and get their meat on Doc land are really the true hunters?

I know this is different depending on where you’re located in the country, however from talking to a lot of other hunters, it just doesn’t seem as easy as what I thought it was going to be.

Things like Helicopter Culls and 1080 drops seem to be wiping out a lot of deer, at least in the areas that I normally Hunt.

What are others thoughts and experiences on this? I’m not trying to create any derisiveness about hunting on different types of land, but it sure would be good to at least see an animal let alone shoot one on Doc land!

Ps - Am absolutely loving hunting and will continue my strolls through the barren lands ever hoping to spot at least a rabbit …

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I don't think you can call anyone a 'true hunter' over another hunter. I agree in the sense that after experiencing both types of hunting, private is far easier than public land hunting. For that reason I find public land far more rewarding and where I spend 99% of my time.

That doesn't take away from guys on private land though. They are also out there doing the same thing as us at the end of the day. Chasing some meat for the freezer, and maybe a nice head to take home.

I do find that I am far more interested in others stories of success when they involve public land. I think its because its something that anyone in NZ can access if they wanted. Nothing is holding anyone back from hunting the same areas I do for example.
But once again this is a personal preference. People hunt for different reasons. Where they hunt doesn't define a 'true hunter'.

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Originally Posted by Mrfants

Around Craigieburn, Mingha-Deception, St James (South Island central area for others info). Did go to Molesworth and saw several deer but that was very deep in and on a Ballot block.


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You're hunting the right areas. Keep at it. You'll get one. I will say that Craigieburn, Mingha-Deception can be very isolated pickings and then all of a sudden, a gully with a dozen in it. You might spend a fair bit of time in these areas without seeing much while you learn the country. I shot a nice 12 near enough to this, last March, in country that is routinely 1080'd so they are still there

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Originally Posted by Sika 8

The thing i like about shooting public land is that its available to everyone anytime, all it costs is a bit of effort and a lot of sweat.

And if you happen to shoot something you're proud of it's compounded by the thought that this animal has managed to survive freezing winters, drought, waro, 1080 drops, and of course other hunters!

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This is exactly how I compare the two. Hunting on public land is something anyone can do. Theres nothing stopping anyone else having the same success as someone else apart from time and effort.

@Mrfants I've shot a grand total of 2 deer in 2 1/2 years, 1 on a farm and 1 in the bush.
I got really excited by the doc deer. I thought "now I'm a real hunter". But that was the adrenaline talking. I went from seeing nothing for months, to seeing 3 and shooting 1. I've not seen anything for 9 months since t that first doc deer, and that's going out most weekends. My conclusion is that I got lucky once, and I need to hunt different areas.

I love hunting, but not so good at finding! But I enjoy being in the bush, it's my happy place, so my lack of success isn't getting me down.

Take the pressure off yourself - Let go of the need to get something and enjoy your time in the bush. It worked for me.

Oh, and go after goats a bit. They're pretty easy and teach you butchery skills for when you land that elusive first [emoji1662]



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