DOC land - The real Hunters bragging rights?

As I get more into hunting, it becomes obvious to me, that there are two types of hunters. Those that hunt and get animals on Doc land and those that have access to farm/private land, for their successful kills.

When I started hunting around 18 months ago, I saw so many hunters showing photos of multiple deer hunted and bagged in an evening, let alone a 2-3 day trip.

One guy I know (3 guys hunted in total), had 7 deer gutted and on the back of their utes within 5 hours. I thought this looks great!

As I plod through acres and acres of Doc land without seeing so much as a single animal, I now realise that the reality is a lot different.

I’m not against people getting easy access to game on private or farmers land whatsoever. I think it’s fantastic. But is there a case to be made that someone who can hunt successfully and get their meat on Doc land are really the true hunters?

I know this is different depending on where you’re located in the country, however from talking to a lot of other hunters, it just doesn’t seem as easy as what I thought it was going to be.

Things like Helicopter Culls and 1080 drops seem to be wiping out a lot of deer, at least in the areas that I normally Hunt.

What are others thoughts and experiences on this? I’m not trying to create any derisiveness about hunting on different types of land, but it sure would be good to at least see an animal let alone shoot one on Doc land!

Ps - Am absolutely loving hunting and will continue my strolls through the barren lands ever hoping to spot at least a rabbit …

You've got it dead right.

Evening shoot usually means spot lighting.

I only hunt DoC land, only because I don’t have private land to hunt on though. I certainly wouldn’t turn down the opportunity to hunt private land. I bumped into 4 hunters in the bush this roar!!
DoC land is definitely a lot more challenging but I guess it’s a lot more rewarding when you do get an animal.

What DOC blocks are you hunting?

Hunting competitions as well.

I hunt both, there is a huge difference between farm hunting and paddock hunting.
Some of the farms I hunt/have hunted are no less challenging than DOC land. The biggest plus to private land is being reasonably confident Noone else is there when you are.
I rarely venture onto public land during the roar as it's just too busy (part of the reason I hunt is the fact that I can get away from busy).
If that means I don't hunt during the roar, that's ok, sometimes I'm lucky...sometimes not.
Any wild animal taken can be a trophy no matter where it lives, private doesn't always mean easy.
Plenty of animals on DOC land (where do you think animals on private land come from ?)
Yes it's nice to have access, but you will find animals on DOC land if you put the time in to learn an area.
My 2 cents

i manly hunt public land as im to lazy to talk to farmers and there's more deer on the public now than ever . there's lots of places that have little or no animals but go a few k in another direction and there's heaps . it can take a while to learn what to look for in a spot but once you work it out you can go somewhere and a have a reasonable chance of seeing something. try new spots have a good look if nothing doing/no sign try somewhere else till you either see an animal or sign then go back a few times .

I put way more personal value on DOC/public land hunting than private especially the trophy aspect. I have access to both but constantly find myself drawn towards the public land. Personally preference

otherway of looking at it "is if your not suffering a little are you really having fun?" i suffer alot more on public land than on private

The biggest difference I see is that private land is subject to more stringent, (but sometimes more random) management. Who hunts there, when they hunt, what they can hunt, how many and what animals can be taken. If you have the privilege to hunt private land that is well managed, there is a far greater opportunity to find what you want. Not many land owners will let just anybody go on their land and shoot whatever they want, as is the case with most DoC estate.

Having hunted public land for just over 50 years, and had the privilege to hunt private land for a few years shy of 50, I have to say I've met hundreds of guys that I would regard as hunters regardless of where they hunt. Real hunters, hardcore at times, from both private and public areas. And its not difficult for many of us to know the difference between hunters and shooters, and I've seen both on both private land and public land.

Lets not divide ourselves into hunters versus real hunters, but we do need to be well aware of what is a shooter and those that have progressed on to become hunters. Most of us can look back and say with confidence the day when we knew we became a hunter. And we shouldnt lose sight that there are plenty of guys and girls out on the hill wanting to progress in to real hunting, for all the right reasons. We need to foster this for the sake of our sport.

Mrfants, I'm reasonably confident that if you continue to head out hunting, possibly on public land, that it will all fall in to place and you will find animals, you will take home the venison or the pork, and one day you will turn to yourself and say "today I became a hunter". its not about the kill, its about the journey.

Well said @Husky1600#2
We need more comments from people like you

Mrfants you have to be hunting the wrong areas- how much money ya got- pick a DOC area even two close together - hire a cheap helicopter- it will likely be a R22 Robbinson - go for a fly over your area just before dark or first thing in morning a little two seat fixed wing will do it but the pilots of those usually reluctant to get down in height - this will put you way ahead in terms of where deer could be located - something needs to change my boy- either someones gives you some decent info on deer for you to go after or expand your search - I learnt Taranaki deer by looking down from 200 feet but then I did not have to pay either - but keep hunting same areas and seeing nothing one way ticket to bored hunter

There are not 2 types of hunters. There are many types of hunters, and many types of opportunities. Save your judgements for when you know the hunter. Where he hunts is of no consequence.

Ha Ha, I knew someone would crack.

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Originally Posted by trapperjohn

Ha Ha, I knew someone would crack.

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There's so much macho bullshit that goes on about hunting public land. I wish I had never trodden on the stuff. :)

We are all hunters here

I hunt hard on public land and happily hunt on private any chance I get...sometimes I refer to farm,as harvesting...but I've shot deer within dragging distance of car on public land too....and hunted for 5-6-7 hours and come home skunked too. It's all good ,if you not harming anyone and having fun.go to it.

Well said Husky. Hunting, and what a trophy is means something different to everyone. I’m a shepherd and everywhere I’ve worked over the years has had some hunting on it, some ok and some very good. At the moment where I work has shitloads of deer, so many in fact we get a helicopter in to tidy a few up. Probably a 150 a year. We’ve also got farmed deer so have stags hanging on the fence’s in the roar including some escape’s with some big heads. I shoot quite a few deer but it’s a bit easy and to be honest it gets a bit boring. I don’t shoot stags off fences because they mean nothing to me, but when someone does and are pretty stoked about it I compliment them on the head because to them it’s a trophy. It’s their trophy and that’s fine, each to their own. I shot a reasonable 12 on public land this year and that’s my trophy.I worked for it and that’s where the value is to me. Walking for days and camping above the bush and seeing a few animals is a joy for me, it’s how I want to spend my time. The flip side is I don’t have to, I can shoot one out the truck window but it’s no where near as rewarding. We should all remember it’s not a competition, and some people like to take the easy road while others amongst us find satisfaction in the effort that they put in. The effort is the trophy.

Some people get on to an area because an experienced actual "hunter" was dumb enough to show them where and how and in the case of private land, who. Then they go shoot there, be successful and claim the mantle "hunter". I lost access to private land because a bloke I loosely knew managed to get on with me and then went back a few times and claimed my "permission" to be there when the manager was "who the fuck are you"?

Leaving that comment in it's box, more important is learning how to hunt rather than learning a specific area: a hunter learns what causes animals targeted, to be in any given area at a given time, of day, of year - terrain, vegetation, prevailing weather patterns, life cycling and so on. You can find deer if you put thought into why you go where and when, plenty of the things about now. I can remember when it was hard, it will be hard again one day and it will be hunters that learn "how" rather than "where" still being successfull filling the freezer when it is.

Some private backblock land is every bit as difficult as some DOC conservancy land, some as easy as some conservancy land . I know a couple of blokes that wear jeans and gumboots, jump on the quad and roll up the back of the farm, shoot a couple of deer, back home in time to watch the evening news, do I care? nup.

For the OP: old saying: "comparison the the thief of joy" care less about others getting their deer, and focus on learning how to get yours.

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Originally Posted by gimp

What DOC blocks are you hunting?

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Around Craigieburn, Mingha-Deception, St James (South Island central area for others info). Did go to Molesworth and saw several deer but that was very deep in and on a Ballot block.


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Originally Posted by IamHackmeat

i manly hunt public land as im to lazy to talk to farmers and there's more deer on the public now than ever . there's lots of places that have little or no animals but go a few k in another direction and there's heaps . it can take a while to learn what to look for in a spot but once you work it out you can go somewhere and a have a reasonable chance of seeing something. try new spots have a good look if nothing doing/no sign try somewhere else till you either see an animal or sign then go back a few times .

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Good post and info TY.


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Originally Posted by Husky1600#2

Having hunted public land for just over 50 years, and had the privilege to hunt private land for a few years shy of 50, I have to say I've met hundreds of guys that I would regard as hunters regardless of where they hunt. Real hunters, hardcore at times, from both private and public areas. And its not difficult for many of us to know the difference between hunters and shooters, and I've seen both on both private land and public land.

Lets not divide ourselves into hunters versus real hunters, but we do need to be well aware of what is a shooter and those that have progressed on to become hunters. Most of us can look back and say with confidence the day when we knew we became a hunter. And we shouldnt lose sight that there are plenty of guys and girls out on the hill wanting to progress in to real hunting, for all the right reasons. We need to foster this for the sake of our sport.

Mrfants, I'm reasonably confident that if you continue to head out hunting, possibly on public land, that it will all fall in to place and you will find animals, you will take home the venison or the pork, and one day you will turn to yourself and say "today I became a hunter". its not about the kill, its about the journey.

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Thanks for the boost - I’m not trying to separate anyone my post title is more of an inner thought. I am doing my best to get out and visit areas where deer may be and am loving the journey.
But the day I get < 1 > deer on Doc land for my freezer is going to be a big celebration in my house. Trust me - I’m putting in the miles.


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Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

Mrfants you have to be hunting the wrong areas- how much money ya got- pick a DOC area even two close together - hire a cheap helicopter- it will likely be a R22 Robbinson - go for a fly over your area just before dark or first thing in morning a little two seat fixed wing will do it but the pilots of those usually reluctant to get down in height - this will put you way ahead in terms of where deer could be located - something needs to change my boy- either someones gives you some decent info on deer for you to go after or expand your search - I learnt Taranaki deer by looking down from 200 feet but then I did not have to pay either - but keep hunting same areas and seeing nothing one way ticket to bored hunter

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Yes I believe I am hunting the wrong areas as it’s been a ghost town for 18 months. I’m no hunter but am using all the knowledge around me to try my best.
I’ve been involved in a lot of sports over the years, but hunting has been the hardest in relation to getting information on good areas with deer population (I know, I know, you have to keep good areas to yourself).


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When I Started hunting at 16 it was 1969/70 , when heily hunting was in full swing in Southland/Fiordland and it was VERY hard to get a deer anywhere public or private .
I had just joined the NZDA as I thought that was my best chance , and it turned out it was . The NZDA was due to have it;s annual stag do , no mixed dine and dance back then lol .
Well it got to 2 weeks before the big do and no one has secured any venison it was so bad , so a group of us went up to Knobs Flat on the way to Milford for the weekend as a last chance .
Well who got the only deer ? yes me and I had to donate my first deer for the stag do . Attachment 274139Attachment 274140 So I think doing the hard yards back then
when deer where very hard to find helped make you into a more careful bush hunter .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gND5zlmJA0&t=771s might help

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Originally Posted by HILLBILLYHUNTERS

When I Started hunting at 16 it was 1969/70 , when heily hunting was in full swing in Southland/Fiordland and it was VERY hard to get a deer anywhere public or private .
I had just joined the NZDA as I thought that was my best chance , and it turned out it was . The NZDA was due to have it;s annual stag do , no mixed dine and dance back then lol .
Well it got to 2 weeks before the big do and no one has secured any venison it was so bad , so a group of us went up to Knobs Flat on the way to Milford for the weekend as a last chance .
Well who got the only deer ? yes me and I had to donate my first deer for the stag do . Attachment 274139Attachment 274140 So I think doing the hard yards back then
when deer where very hard to find helped make you into a more careful bush hunter .

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Magic

Less walking,more glassing from a good vantage point. Especially the first and last hour of day light.Rest of the day,go home.Mountain river bed edges and grassy flats near water.That last or first hour of light is key time for when deer come out for a quick feed.They love green grass,you find that and watch.

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Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

We are all hunters here

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But then there's Philipo

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Originally Posted by HILLBILLYHUNTERS

When I Started hunting at 16 it was 1969/70 , when heily hunting was in full swing in Southland/Fiordland and it was VERY hard to get a deer anywhere public or private .
I had just joined the NZDA as I thought that was my best chance , and it turned out it was . The NZDA was due to have it;s annual stag do , no mixed dine and dance back then lol .
Well it got to 2 weeks before the big do and no one has secured any venison it was so bad , so a group of us went up to Knobs Flat on the way to Milford for the weekend as a last chance .
Well who got the only deer ? yes me and I had to donate my first deer for the stag do . Attachment 274139Attachment 274140 So I think doing the hard yards back then
when deer where very hard to find helped make you into a more careful bush hunter .

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Haha, same here but early 80s, headed to Knobs Flat to help with a working bee, overshot the Flat abit and had to stop in the bush there for a pee. Shot a hind still in my town shoes after having to back to the truck for a rifle. Meanwhile back at the camp the boys were fuming cause a chopper boys had a dump pile for the freezer truck on the other side of the road. One of the few deer I've shot in the bush!

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Originally Posted by HILLBILLYHUNTERS

When I Started hunting at 16 it was 1969/70 , when heily hunting was in full swing in Southland/Fiordland and it was VERY hard to get a deer anywhere public or private .
I had just joined the NZDA as I thought that was my best chance , and it turned out it was . The NZDA was due to have it;s annual stag do , no mixed dine and dance back then lol .
Well it got to 2 weeks before the big do and no one has secured any venison it was so bad , so a group of us went up to Knobs Flat on the way to Milford for the weekend as a last chance .
Well who got the only deer ? yes me and I had to donate my first deer for the stag do . Attachment 274139Attachment 274140 So I think doing the hard yards back then
when deer where very hard to find helped make you into a more careful bush hunter .

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I was building on the TeAnau water front 75/76.Use to watch the choppers racing down the lake,deer hanging under neath.Our crane operator was the local chopper machanic out there.Use to be some good piss ups out there at the chopper workshop on Sunday afternoons.

Hunting doc land is all good outside good weather and the roar. Can be a bit scary during the roar.

There’s another factor.
The good old 90 - 10 rule. 10% of blokes shoot 90% of the deer, or catch 90% of the fish.
They’re often labelled “lucky” or “tin arses”.


There will be a massive range of skills across the hunting community on here.
I would suggest less than 10% are typically in the top tier of “hunters”
Probably more like 2 or 3% of people are truely in an elite category, sporting or otherwise.

They will be hunters with years of experience, probably had a father or uncle who invested years teaching the tricks of the trade.
They almost certainly hunt very regularly, or did for a good period of their hunting lives.

I’ve been fortunate enough to have known 2 blokes like this over the years ( top 2 - 3% hunters)
We could hunt anywhere, they would always see - shoot deer. The rest of us would typically come back empty handed, and seen nothing.
They both had the same attributes, gone before it got light, back well after dark.
Fit and strong, they regularly hunted many days a month. Didn’t have all the gadgets, just a knife and rifle.
They thought like a deer, I noticed after a while when they were recounting encounters, or hunts to me, they had this way they explained what happened was almost like they were the deer.
Thinking about it now, I can’t think specifically explain what or how they said it, but I recall it was often like it was from the animals perspective.

So, yes having access to land where there are good numbers, and low pressure makes hunting easy.
But if you’ve got the wind up your arse, you’re wandering along ridge tops sky-lined in the middle of the day, or you hunt DOC tracks and roads, still in bed at 9am, and back at camp drinking beer at 5, you’ll struggle to find deer anywhere.

Disclaimer.
I’m definitely not in the top 10%, possibly for my love of hunting and the mountains, definitely not hunting prowess.
Probably in the top 10% for hunting gear & paraphernalia.

Moved along from this to a doc new to apply permit system, posted further down the page. Now this got me excited, they state that it's public conservation land, not doc land. It's how you hold your tongue, public conservation land, the new government is moving in the right direction. If they can shift some of the many slack ^%$# into the army I'd be doubly pleased.

Without giving the game away, if there are good numbers on private land (which there is from my experience in a lot of areas in Canterbury), there will probably be good numbers on the doc land that boarders it. Find these blocks on the map, have a look and you may be surprised

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Originally Posted by IamHackmeat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gND5zlmJA0&t=771s might help

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Epic ty.


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Originally Posted by Trout

Less walking,more glassing from a good vantage point. Especially the first and last hour of day light.Rest of the day,go home.Mountain river bed edges and grassy flats near water.That last or first hour of light is key time for when deer come out for a quick feed.They love green grass,you find that and watch.

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Ok. I do see a lot of YouTube vids with local hunters out during the day getting deer. I’ve only ever been with other hunters and for deer and seen them mainly dawn and dusk. I guess sumner and winter make a big difference to animals being out and about?


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I don't know what makes a "true hunter" and not really interested either, but the OP makes a valid point. There is a gap between how hunting is portrayed on social media which is often relatively long range shooting on open farmland and bashing through the bush on DOC land. It can be disheartening for the beginner without access to the former.

For my own part, it takes me a day of travel by road to get anywhere near a good hunting area, then there's the walk in and out. I just don't have time to spend 3 days getting into a position where I might get a chance at an animal, so it's going to be a helicopter ride or paid access to private land a couple of times a year for me. That plus chasing goats around Northland bush (DOC) is just about enough. More would be good, but that's not the reality at the moment.

EDIT: I should add that we are fortunate in global terms. There's not many places in the world that you can go for a hunt on public land.

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Originally Posted by Jaro

Without giving the game away, if there are good numbers on private land (which there is from my experience in a lot of areas in Canterbury), there will probably be good numbers on the doc land that boarders it. Find these blocks on the map, have a look and you may be surprised

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I’ve tried that a couple times but poss wrong areas - the small strip of doc land eg riverbeds is often wedged in between private land, but good point


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