Dogs where dogs shouldn't be..

I've been laid up resting today as I can hardly move my head after the shenanigans here the other day and been giving the hunting vids a bit of a thrashing on YouTube.
I've noticed that there are many "youtubers" some with quite substantial follower numbers that seem to flout the rules when it comes to taking dogs into the backcountry.

Case in point
https://youtu.be/8hH9sTJU-NQ

No, I'm not picking on this individual/group because they are women, it was just one of the ones I remembered as I have hunted this place myself and left my dog at home so it stuck out to me.

I've personally seen hunters with their dogs in areas that they are not allowed but always felt difficult about whether I should say something or not as to me the dog wasn't causing any kind of issue other than the rules saying it wasn't supposed to be there. It does seem "unfair" though when you've left your best mate at home and others seem to not worry about the rules.
What say you forum members? Does it annoy you to see this kind of carry on? Would you pass comment if you came across it first hand?

Intersting point I've been to quite a few places that I've seen dogs and it wasn't until I got my dog that I started looking at places that she is allowed and realised they weren't supposed to be there. It does annoy me as there is potential for a few muppets to ruin it for everyone and lose further dog access. I probably wouldn't say anything unless it seemed they had no control of the dog.

Private land with landowners permission then i take my dog. But my dog gets wormed by vets every month and they give me a certificate. So in yhe truck i have a trail of paperwork to prove im not shitting the landowner.
Public doc land here i take my dog. (Have doc dog permits)
I go to great lengths to make sure my "mates" are still stock safe. Sadly i cannot say the same about others animals

I organize hunting trips around where I can take my dogs. If others want to take the risk then more fool to them. As above I'm unlikely to say anything but if dog or owner are showing signs of being 'idiots' then I'd be having a word to doc staff when I got back home

If dogs are not allowed then don’t take them. This is pretty selfish behaviour and runs the risk of access for all getting shutdown. As for putting it up on YouTube that’s really dumb. Hey but “look at me” wank, wank

I always enjoy their videos. They are always happy and enjoying the outdoors.
As for dogs, While I might think twice about taking a dog where they are not allowed, we just have too many fucken pedantic rules! If A dog shows up at a hut im staying at, it will be welcomed and allowed to share a bunk just like the humans. Good on people getting out there and enjoying the outdoors with thier dogs.
The caveat is that they are under control.

One spot I hunt is No dogs allowed, but I often see more dogs than people. It's usually day trampers, and they stick to the walking track so it doesn't worry me much. There are no signs saying no dogs, but the DOC website says no dogs, but how many hikers bother to check? Or care?
I did once get photos of a hunter and his dog on my game camera well off the track

If you're going hunting, you should have gone to he DOC site to download a permit. If you have done that you will know whether you are allowed to take your dog, whether, if you a re, it needs to be kiwi-proofed", and how many dogs you can take. There's no real need to bleat about not knowing. Some public hunting land is NO DOGS; some is conditional. Why risk your dog, or your right to hunt? Or indeed, possibly your FAL in these political times and with the police taking every opportunity to take our guns? If you're in a place where dogs are not permitted, do the ownera favour if you see them, and let them know, before DOC or the cops do.

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Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

I've been laid up resting today as I can hardly move my head after the shenanigans here the other day and been giving the hunting vids a bit of a thrashing on YouTube.
I've noticed that there are many "youtubers" some with quite substantial follower numbers that seem to flout the rules when it comes to taking dogs into the backcountry.

Case in point
https://youtu.be/8hH9sTJU-NQ

No, I'm not picking on this individual/group because they are women, it was just one of the ones I remembered as I have hunted this place myself and left my dog at home so it stuck out to me.

I've personally seen hunters with their dogs in areas that they are not allowed but always felt difficult about whether I should say something or not as to me the dog wasn't causing any kind of issue other than the rules saying it wasn't supposed to be there. It does seem "unfair" though when you've left your best mate at home and others seem to not worry about the rules.
What say you forum members? Does it annoy you to see this kind of carry on? Would you pass comment if you came across it first hand?

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You should ask the question to them on YouTube. It would be interesting to see what they say.

Interesting question. Here's another one that another thread on wild dogs got me thinking about. If you're in a no dogs area, say with Kiwi, and you see a dog running around, do you shoot it? Like if you saw a cat you'd shoot it right?

Local beach here a stretch is a nesting area for dotterels. Signs at the road end asking people take their dogs in the other direction. Still plenty of dog tracks up towards the nesting ground. Pretty dissapointing. There is a mile of empty beach with no nesting in the other direction. Just last week a dead kiwi found just off the Puniho track up the road killed by a dog. Inside the park which is strictly no dogs at all times.

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This absolutely, unequivocally, grinds my gears. I organise the better part of my existence around my dog. I don't go anywhere he can’t.

Theres huge tracts of both islands where I can’t ever go and hunt with my best mate ( te urewera, fiordland, aspiring etc etc) But to see people do it anyway, and not only put dog access into public land at risk, but further the reputation of hunters being selfish pricks to the general outdoors public is not something I can tolerate.

I spent a year working for Doc , living on a mainland island site. I had to jump
through a few hoops to be allowed to get a dog for there and he still wasn’t allowed in 90 percent of the block. Part of my job was to monitor the walking tracks in the area and just be visible to the public. The amount of people I saw take their dogs into the mainland island site was unbelievable. Yet every time I tried to be polite about it, I’d get abused and threatened to the point where I’d have little choice but to walk away and hand over number plates to other staff later on. This site was also only accessible at one end with farmer permission, and it was a delicate situation at times.

People bringing dogs into places they shouldn’t be, not only flouts the rules, but potentially , at worst case scenario, could lead to a breaking of the social contract that allows hunters to hunt on public land with them. Anywhere.

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Originally Posted by hamsav

I shot my friends dog (total mutt) , got shit from his whole family . We were renting a farm house ,told him not to bring it ,then told him to tie it to the veranda post ,but he said it would be fine and let it go wence it made a bee line for the ewes and lambs at the far end of the paddock and started taking hunks of wool of the ewes and flinging lambs about . I went inside ,upstairs open bedroom window, rem 7m08 on the sill, and put 140grns thru the base of its neck ( #ucking good shot actually ....nearly 200m ).
They were all yelling and screaming at it to come and the bastard mutt stopped and looked back our way and then just carried on. Felt sorry for the kids ,who still get the odd dig in at me .....15 years later .
Heh heh heh ...was a good shot tho, still quite chuffed about it :-))))))))))))))))))......)))))))

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Bloody good job. I got shit as a teenager when I shot at a farming neighbour's dog they couldn't be arsed tying up or Kenneling. Chased our poultry, raped (raped I say) my dad's favorite border collie bitch and generally pissed everyone off. Saw it coming across the house paddock one school morning while I was having my weetbix, got the 22, poked it out the kitchen window and emptied the mag at it. 5 shot. Wasn't exactly a match shooter and too proud to use the window sill so was doing offhand at a running target 80 odd yards away. I'd turned it around when the last shot hit its tail about a third the way down. It yelped for half a mile. Forever after it dragged it at half mast. Never came back to our farm tho.

one comment i will make is that it can be a right pain in the ass getting kiwi aversion testing done. Not pointing finger at the contractors doing it.

up my way i suspect many don't bother.
Call DOC to get contacts, no sessions organized, or no one calls you back. very informal etc.
would be much better if the local DOC office could give me a list of dates and locations around northland with say 1 session a month locked in that people could go to.
My Dog has missed 2 hunts with me last year as my kiwi aversion permits had run out.
Partly pissed at DOC and partly at my self for not getting on to it earlier.
Z
ps I have no issue with an under control dog in the hut. heck most house pets would not cope outside.

As a side note, I've heard the kiwi aversion training uses shock collars on the dog.
Is this correct?

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Originally Posted by kidmac42

As a side note, I've heard the kiwi aversion training uses shock collars on the dog.
Is this correct?

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Guess it depends on the course, down here they used to but now use a feathery 'hat' with electrodes sticking out of it

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Originally Posted by kidmac42

As a side note, I've heard the kiwi aversion training uses shock collars on the dog.
Is this correct?

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YES

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kidmac42

As a side note, I've heard the kiwi aversion training uses shock collars on the dog.
Is this correct?

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Depends on the trainer. Some of the doc staff trainers do, and they put a reasonable boot into it. But others just use vibration.

Doc land without KIWI....why ever not????
there are large parts of south island land controlled by Doc where there is no reason dogs shouldnt be allowed...I had robust discussion with DOC about it 30 years ago as trampers often had dogs with them...reply was doc cant do anything about tramper with dog...but could revoke permit for hunter....
I dont hunt tracks or hunt near huts so dog is of zero impact on another person...always within 50 yards of me,noramlly within 10 yards.
there are a lot of areas close by where I wont take dog..too many people and its not allowed....
a quiet word in ear of Doc staff at local office isnt a bad idea if there is somewhere you often hunt and want to take your dog...you might get the ok...or not.

And if they do allow dogs, they must be on a leash. (No kiwi in that area)
Might as well take my dog to the local dog park or walk around the block a couple of times.

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Originally Posted by Allizdog

And if they do allow dogs, they must be on a leash. (No kiwi in that area)
Might as well take my dog to the local dog park or walk around the block a couple of times.

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actually that restriction wouldnt worry me in slightest....IF IT WAS ENFORCED ACROSS BOARD.....
rules out pig hunting which would be bummer but that only in areas its allowed anyway....
hunting with dog at my heels means she isnt leading me,but can still indicate when something is near and lead me to something Ive shot.tommorrow Im going out after wallabies and she will be doing just that....staying at heel most of day,may even be on lead if she gets too excited by proceedings.

the attitude that doc ranger cant control trampers dogs all those years ago was wrong...maybe times have changed for better.we could always done dark sunnies and carry white cane??

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

we could always done dark sunnies and carry white cane??

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Probably shouldn't have the rifle then..... My dog gets used primarily for finding animals after they have been shot. They don't have to go far on the island to be bloody hard to find I the crown fern

oh that plurry crown fern...place we normally hunt is covered in it...waist high or more in places,and the wasps just love to zap your arse n legs from under cover of the fronds.....didnt realise dogs could be on island...must look into that..... hmmmm I might just make a trip down there sometime some how....

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

.....didnt realise dogs could be on island...must look into that....

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Not allowed on the national park (most of the island even with kiwi eversion) allowed around the village on lead and the beaches, there are a couple of walks where you can stretch there legs but it is pretty limited. Good idea to get your dog kiwi trained if you plan on bringing one over as they are all around the village

Cheers guys.

Where did you see that they aren't allowed dogs in this block? I have hunted this block countless times and taken my dog every time. there is a sign on the gate at the car park saying no dogs. but that is only on the farm which the access easement runs through? the doc website also says dogs are allowed into this block. Can you link me to where you saw the no dogs thing? cheers

If its the valley I think it is....DOC website says "limited Dogs" not NO Dogs.

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Originally Posted by wanakahunter

Where did you see that they aren't allowed dogs in this block? I have hunted this block countless times and taken my dog every time. there is a sign on the gate at the car park saying no dogs. but that is only on the farm which the access easement runs through? the doc website also says dogs are allowed into this block. Can you link me to where you saw the no dogs thing? cheers

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Not sure if they were allowed into the area or not but when I walked to McLean Falls ( Catlins) I found two women with a dog each right at the falls, on a leash mind you except when one wanted to take a photo of her dog with the falls as a backdrop. (Said dog looked sad, maybe it was the green bandana it was wearing!)
Then when I walked back to the carpark there was a family with a dog all set to walk to the falls.

First time I’ve seen this and I guess as I didn’t see a No Dogs sign at the carpark it must be OK?

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Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

Attachment 180456

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must have changed, When i first started hunting this block i called doc in twizel and they told me its fine as long as i contact the station owner and get permission for crossing the easement. I took that as good to go. either it has changed or the doc ranger i spoke to had no clue. also the owner of the station said yeah good as gold! like it was all good. looks like i wont be hunting in there again with the dog.

to your original point of this post. it does piss me off when people blatantly flout the rules with their dogs. if it is a genuine case of the rules weren't clear enough then there is going to be exceptions. like the example i have given about doc telling me one thing and the rules actually being different (or changed)

Here to play devil's advocate. I haven't broken any rules with my pup but I do find the dog restrictions in the South pretty stupid. In the North Island lots of kiwi blocks are able to be hunted with dogs if you go through the correct aversion training with frequency. But down south there seems to be absolutely no reason to bother with kiwi aversion training as it doesn't help you access any blocks. I understand limiting access where farm easements are the only access but it's does seem silly.

I never noticed how bad it was until I got the the pup and went to get her permits and a huge percentage of North Canterbury and the coast is no dogs. If you want to hunt the divide everything from Lewis Pass to Arthur's is out. I have seen dogs in places they aren't allowed but personally I'm not phased if they are under control (the guys I talked too had kiwi aversion trained before they took their dog out) and are smart about things. I know the Duleys talked about trying to improve dog access down south after they mistakenly took dogs in on an episode thinking they were covered with kiwi aversion.