Thread: Forest and Bird

Originally Posted by Sauer

Thanks a lot Rushy. You have never met me, no idea what sort of person I am, but solely because I have an engineering degree you have determined that “down in the mud I am as useless as tits on a bull”.

I would suggest that comment says a lot more about you than it does about me.

I think I have said this somewhere else but cant remember where, I have made a pretty good living out of my degrees over the years

1. There are some people with a degree who are arrogant - which shows their education has some way to go still.

2. There are also some people with no degree who have a chip on their shoulder about people with degrees. Sometimes from prejudice handed down by their "working class" parents, or because they have an inferiority complex. But sometimes because they've met individuals from group one.

Originally Posted by Boaraxa

Father Paulson got chased out of town so he fled to London it must have all been to much for him though he threw him self into the Themes river , They found him clinging to a boy.

I thought that was Michael Jackson they found clinging to a boy when he fell overboard?

I think what @Rushy meant was the ones straight out of uni. They've usually spent 17 odd years at school and have barely been out in real world.
The bad ones are for example H+S. No idea that the safest idea just isn't practical. Full of ideas but no real world experience.
Not all of them, and not their fault either.
On the other hand if I introduced you to my mate Griffo in Aussie (kiwi BTW) Im sure he would be perfect.
He got his maintenance management degree in his late 40's after doing fitting in the railways, work on both hardrock and coal underground equipment, workshop management and hire fleet management roles etc etc. Majority of his lifetime was involved with fixing stuff and why it breaks. Then did a diploma and then a degree as a career path choice but had a significant of real world experience to compliment it.

The discussion is all somewhat moot for me now as I no longer employ people. Over a number of decades though, I employed a lot of people with degrees and even more people without that level of qualification. The people with degrees were employed into roles where their qualification/s brought the required level of knowledge and skill to add value to the business but I never employed people with degrees into operational management roles. That was my prerogative as the employer and my choice because my experiences had evidenced that when it comes to managing people at the lower socio economic end of the spectrum, processes and plant to produce results against critical time pressures, that domain was better suited to people that had been "in the mud" and knew what needed to be done when the shit hit the fan and who could get people to work as a team because they were his / her team and would work with him / her to make it happen. Just one man's view and as I say somewhat moot and certainly no longer relevant.

Originally Posted by Rushy

The discussion is all somewhat moot for me now as I no longer employ people. Over a number of decades though, I employed a lot of people with degrees and even more people without that level of qualification. The people with degrees were employed into roles where their qualification/s brought the required level of knowledge and skill to add value to the business but I never employed people with degrees into operational management roles. That was my prerogative as the employer and my choice because my experiences had evidenced that when it comes to managing people at the lower socio economic end of the spectrum, processes and plant to produce results against critical time pressures, that domain was better suited to people that had been "in the mud" and knew what needed to be done when the shit hit the fan and who could get people to work as a team because they were his / her team and would work with him / her to make it happen. Just one man's view and as I say somewhat moot and certainly no longer relevant.

It’s still relevant “Rusty”. I see direct comparisons with the agriculture industry. Consultants are a classic...my old man(a station manager) called them parasites..even though he was obliged to use them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ive seen academics in mental health -where those with excperience never got a look see in the ladder of management and now we are rarer than rocking horse shit -oh dear we need them to to steady the ship..too fucking late mate .
BTW cordite -heres a little advice -take it oreave it bud-In recent years in my field those with a degree met the undertaker sooner -latest at 58yrs of age.
Me 64 in 2/52 and 47.5 yrs in the bloody field-It says something about being a simple old NZRPN and hospital trained at that!what makes me chuckle is even difficult ex clients i nursed are now welcoming me back..at least with you we knew where we stood.
Ive had two conversations recently with academic nursing tutors -both are so fed up with NZs tertiary education Aussie is about to get two top notch professionals .mind you not suprising given a fish&chip shop server running the country and a bunch of overpaid losers!
my brothers andisters all have degrees and lurk in the higher echelons of Nz -Im the last bastard you see before you see the undertaker though!
Rushy -my stick floats with him hes a graduate of the jungle green university-that does offer a friggin good education!.the only free speech I knew was when you offered to shout the RSM a beer.!

It’s still relevant “Rusty”. I see direct comparisons with the agriculture industry. Consultants are a classic...my old man(a station manager) called them parasites..even though he was obliged to use them.

If he was obliged to use them it was for the reason that he was lacking in the ability to communicate what he was doing to the ownership, in an unbiased and independent manner.

That statement also indicates that he assumes that he knows everything, and frankly anybody that does think that, doesn't know that they don't know.

So parasites they might be, but it would be only a fool that doesn't understand the need and the value they can contribute.

Perhaps your old man could upskill so that he can use the resource more effectively?

Having recently completed a strategic management degree, I had several conversations with lecturers about the merit or otherwise of putting school kids through management qualifications, the feedback I got was that it seemed somewhat arse about face even to them. Particularly the ones from the USA or Canada where management training was usually taught as post graduate training. People came to brush up after having gained experience in their chosen field.

So I have some sympathy for Rushies perspective... 21 yr old management graduates haven't even worked yet...

To me the notion of having a degree in a job is fine....as long as you have the character and experience to balance it out. I'm sure we've all met the people who have a head full of knowledge, but under developed senses of humour, patience and humility.

"People don't care how much you know, till they know how much you care"

A degree is just a certificate for a certain kind of structured learning. It’s possible to be an inexperienced genius or an experienced idiot and still hold a degree.
A keen younger graduate with both feet on the ground and a fresh degree can be a breath of fresh air. Likewise a degree and real world experience can be a great combo.
Organisations should benefit from both.

I think you are all missing the point. All the greenes want is a true wilderness. For them it must be quiet hard to look between their ears.

I think I have a headache

Originally Posted by Rushy

The discussion is all somewhat moot for me now as I no longer employ people. Over a number of decades though, I employed a lot of people with degrees and even more people without that level of qualification. The people with degrees were employed into roles where their qualification/s brought the required level of knowledge and skill to add value to the business but I never employed people with degrees into operational management roles. That was my prerogative as the employer and my choice because my experiences had evidenced that when it comes to managing people at the lower socio economic end of the spectrum, processes and plant to produce results against critical time pressures, that domain was better suited to people that had been "in the mud" and knew what needed to be done when the shit hit the fan and who could get people to work as a team because they were his / her team and would work with him / her to make it happen. Just one man's view and as I say somewhat moot and certainly no longer relevant.

@Rushy

I like your approach, are you ex army? Commissions for the university boys, competent non-degree holders NCOs/WOs as operational managers, the rest privates.

Originally Posted by Cordite

@Rushy

I like your approach, are you ex army? Commissions for the university boys, competent non-degree holders NCOs/WOs as operational managers, the rest privates.

Of course I am ex army. That was a very long time ago though.

Originally Posted by Paddy79

I thought that was Michael Jackson they found clinging to a boy when he fell overboard?

I am more concerned about Paddy's slight against Michael Jackson than any of the debate over degree merits !!!