best reply so far Matt2308!
geezus its impressive how focused hunters can be if they think first have a coffee then post :)
Printable View
best reply so far Matt2308!
geezus its impressive how focused hunters can be if they think first have a coffee then post :)
What I see a lot from overseas hunters that I have dealt with or run into is a lot are trigger happy idiots that have 10 thar heads between a couple hunters to throw in the belly pod that would not add up to 12" if ya stuck them all together.
8" chamois heads and pathetic rat stags.
Have also seen it from residents but not having any number restrictions some people from away can't help themselves.
It pisses me off no end and is pretty selfish in a ballot system.
I say that is good advice. All readers should carefully consider what they are being asked and where it is likely to take us (if it can be prevented now)
Consider- I saw "emotion" used to drive the concept of the GAC in order to end Heli Hunting. I see some real or fake disappointment emerging as some of those realise what we have actually got.
Currently- PAYING clients can and do heli hunt in Wilderness area's where second class citizens like myself have to walk. (DoC has given priority to those paying)
Do you think guides paying concessions, creating employment and an economy out of our public resource would get similar priority? (should the need be created)- The result from making overseas clients use a guide might be less access to your own back yard. Think about it.
Be very careful what you ask for and more careful of the reasons of those asking.
As I understand the ballot block that is often referred to in this thread is a random lottery (drawing) whereby all participants are treated equally regardless of their country of residence. Is that correct?
As a matter of curiosity, how many people apply for the ballot blocks and how many permits are issued?
Scotty
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
[QUOTE=R93;364593]What I see a lot from overseas hunters that I have dealt with or run into is a lot are trigger happy idiots that have 10 thar heads between a couple hunters to throw in the belly pod that would not add up to 12" if ya stuck them all together.
8" chamois heads and pathetic rat stags.
Have also seen it from residents but not having any number restrictions some people from away can't help themselves.
All I can say is having hunted with some Kiwi hunters this is the stupidest thing I have read, overseas hunters have far more respect for game, with most living in country's where game selection is key to the production of viable breeding herds.
Don,t start me on what kiwis call duck shooting.
Maybe stupid to you toff but I have witnessed this hundreds of times first hand, flying people in and out the hills for 12 yrs with crappy heads and and no meat.
So I would probably have a better idea than you what overseas hunters are like.
Besides, I have never flown a kiwi on AATH
Those hunters are elite and really care about the animals eh?
Go bark up another tree😆
I joined this forum to learn more about hunting in NZ, to include the culture of Kiwi hunting. This is a very interesting topic and gives me insight as to what problems you, the locals, see with foreign hunters. Does DOC document how many animals are destroyed annually from the 1080 program? I am assuming that DOC flies helicopters after the poison drops to fly out the dead animals, is that correct? Because the animal has been poisoned it has no nutritional or commercial value so what happens to the carcass?
I admit to seeing several videos on YouTube where both foreigners and locals take an animal, cut off the head or rack and apparently leave the carcass behind. (I understand that this is not an accurate sampling of the hunting population but I honestly had the impression that a number of hunters, locals (to include guides) and non-locals, practice this wasteful behaviour on a regular basis. I am hoping that my impression is wrong. Is it common to find headless carcasses and bones lying about from this practice?
I understand that there are no mammalian predators or scavengers in NZ. Has there been a problem for the various raptors and rooks with eating poisoned carrion? I am assuming they are the only scavengers on the islands, no?
So let's assume that a foreign hunter has a trophy beast and wishes to donate the carcass. Is there a way to do this. That is to say, is there either a Governmental agency or an NGO that will take the carcass and process it? As a foreign hunter that wants to visit NZ to go hunting, I cannot take the meat with me back the California because of countless number of regulations and statues, what can one do with the carcass as a more responsible hunter? Are there local restaurants and/or butchers that will accept donated meat?
Thanks,
Scotty
Paragraph one NO
Paragraph two not normally,meat is taken
Paragraph three Yes, and the poisoned carcasses are left to kill whatever eats them, including native birds.
Paragraph four, it can be given away for private consumption, but health regs stop anything else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrnelZB6x2Y
Is it common for Kiwis to kill Red Stag with Sika antlers and leave the carcass behind?
No one has answered the question as to what "should" a foreign hunter do with the carcass if it can only be handled for private consumption? Is there a network of needy folks looking for venison?
Scotty
In all reality the onus is on you, the hunter. You're the one pulling the trigger. Kiwi, Yank or any other nationality it makes no difference.
If you want to kill an animal, it's your responsibility to deal with the rest.
FYI I know of no shelter or other NGO type organisation in NZ looking for venison or other wild game but it's not a bad idea. Most of us will recover what we can for own own families and sometimes a bit of barter. You can only hump so much out on your back, which is the kiwi way (old school way anyway).
FYI our deer are classified as pest but are not targeted in poison operations (no matter what the tinfoil hat brigade think). Collateral (and convenient) damage is probably a better description. In a country with no game management shit happens and honestly another carcass or two left on the hill is not going to destroy our herd. Dead is dead regardless of what consumes the carcass.
Easiest way to deal with your particular problem is give the forum a heads up where and when you're hunting. I would bet that there will both be a member or three in the area and that at least one of them will be keen for a hunt or at least give you a good heads start. If you look after the meat I will also be sure your host will be able to distribute it for you and might even get you a beer or two for your trouble.
This is all assuming you can outfox one of our kiwi super deer!
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05...3fd2f1e251.jpg
I'll be coming with my [hunting] partner, Dead-eye Dawn. I expect that we will get dropped off somewhere that not only has wildlife but is rugged and beautiful.
To only identify a perceived problem without a proposed solution is nothing more than bitching and far from helpful. Hopefully this thread will encourage the Kiwis who hate the foreign hunter game waste to make it possible for us to make our kills useful through some type of game donation facility/organization. If that ever happens, I'd hope to be one of the first to utilize the process.
(Perhaps reaching out to battered women's shelters, homeless assistance organizations would be a good starting point).
Scotty.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Unfortunately it is not as simple as that due to our laws and the risk of disease or posion in the meat.
I tryied to give away profesionally made wild game sausages to a shelter and they wouldn't/couldn't take them.
Scotty, dont be put off by this thread, it has gone off on a tangent as usual....i can tell from your posts that your attitude is most welcome in this land, you are both ethical hunters and your showing a great deal of respect...
come on over and have a ball......best of luck mate!
cheers Eric
"To only identify a perceived problem without a proposed solution is nothing more than bitching and far from helpful."= Summitdog, there's no no bitching mate, rather raising a few questions that could affect something that Kiwis hold dear.Hopefully if this ever does become a problem it can be managed rather than regretfully wishing something had been done.There is no one simple solution to whichever part of the problem is there.
"Hopefully this thread will encourage the Kiwis who hate the foreign hunter game waste to make it possible for us to make our kills useful through some type of game donation facility/organization. If that ever happens, I'd hope to be one of the first to utilize the process"=im pretty sure if you hook up with a kiwi hunter over here who will show you a good time, they could re-home the meat etc.
NZ is unique in that we have all these introduced "game animals" no predators other than ourselves, very small ranges of some species, globaly rare/hard to hunt species all classed as pests with no limits or guidelines on what to shoot or not shoot.
Then you have the "kill every mammal with 4 legs" idealist who want to turn NZ back into how it was before humans arrived.
And the complete other extreme the "anti every control measure"
Both of which are nutters and should be treated as such as you back out the hut door and go pitch your biv a safe distance away.
The majority of NZ hunters sit somewhere in the middle, we generally have no animosity towards foreign hunters in fact quite the opposite we like to show off how bloody good we have it.
http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...s-waldo-16661/
Just one thing that pisses us off is not getting ballots because foreign hunters flood the ballot for our land and our animals, In my opinion balloted blocks should only be open to NZ citizens and there mates(wherever the mates come from is irrelevant)
Hope you enjoy your trip to the land of the long red tape and if I can help you out I am happy to.....except with a ballot.
Maybe it is a cultural difference but if someone pipes up with how foreign hunters should "keep their hands off OUR (KIWI) animals: because of the alleged wastefulness but does not propose a way for a foreigner to make the carcass useful, i.e., to allow for the meat to be utilized in some fashion b/c a foreigner is usually forbidden from exporting the meat because of governmental regulations, then that, in my book, is bitching without a solution.
Vietnamcam, I have no understanding of the ballot system or the locations for which it is applicable. I don't know if the locations are more highly prized because there is greater game population but I will assume that is the issue. Is that the case? Are there greater numbers of trophy animals in the balloted regions?
But to the topic of the thread, whether hunting in NZ is too easy and therefore attracts the wrong element of foreign hunters, would not requiring foreign hunters to hunt on private reserves hurt the local hunter? If the foreign hunters were only allowed to hunt on private land, wouldn't the private land owners want to expand there range for economic gain and eventually eat up the public land for the local hunter? While that may seem absurd at this moment look at the lands in California, which are roughly the same size as NZ. I cannot find many public lands to hunt wild pigs (which I think everyone will agree with are just as big as pest as rats with tusks) or Wapiti (Elk). In part because even the "public" land has been leased out to ranchers, who in turn have control to the access to the land. For me, as a CA resident, to hunt Wapiti in CA I would expect to spend $14K US for a tag and guide (that is unless I had a rancher invite me onto his property and he provided me with the hunting tag).
Scotty
Not so much greater game numbers or trophys but some are in wilderness areas and the ballot period allows flying in in most cases which would otherwise be illegal, unless due to a loophole you are aerially assisted trophy hunting with a operator permitted to do it, it is a bloody disgrace to the country that it is allowed at all let alone in wilderness areas where someone may have walked for days to get there only to have a helicopter herd animals toward "hunters" they have just dropped off or just shot from the air.
Please be patient while I am learning about the ballot process, which appears to unsettle at least several members of this forum. The underlying issue is that by winning the ballot a local has the privilege to engage a helicopter to facilitate in the hunt, which would otherwise be illegal for a Kiwi but not necessarily so for a foreigner?
Learn to laugh at yourself and never be left unamused.
Well that is one issue yes, another is kiwis missing out on hunting our animals in the rut.
And the nz government only gives lip service to nzers and does whatever the fuck it wants! Foreign tourists and hunters bring money, that's all that the pussys in their plush offices see. So yes, some of us nzers do get a bit annoyed when we cannot get a ballot because of foreigners
You think like that when ya go to the big West Island and further afield....do ya Gimp...do ya then....lmao...!
Never been out of nz and have no intention of it.
Now I am thoroughly confused. I thought the ballot block was for a particular region whilst the remainder of the fee ranges in NZ are open for hunt but you give the impression that if a Kiwi does not get a ballot then they can't hunt anywhere on the island during the roar. Is that really the case?
Learn to laugh at yourself and never be left unamused.
A lot of doc controlled hunting grounds all round nz are closed to public for the ballot period. Ballot permit winners/holders should be the only hunters in any given ballot block.
There is always open permit areas that anyone can hunt throughout the year and roar period, only issue is, we get all sorts of gimps running around firing at movement,colour etc when they should be at home doing the dishes.
Ballots blocks in westland can still be hunted by anybody that walks in regardless of who has the block. Its just that most blocks are really only accessible by machine.
I think the topic is too far off tangent with ballot blocks being a separate yet important discussion issue. The blocks in question really are only for Tahr rut hunting where the question should be addressed regarding non NZ residents and how we should manage them on our public lands.
FFS we cannot even manage our game animals.
Two points I would make;
1)
I would rather like to see something statistical regarding the alleged monopolization of a ballet system I personally know nothing about by internationals, the comments indicated on this thread also indicate many local's to NZ are unaware. I'm unsure if locals are unaware how internationals are going to make better use?
2)
My gut would indicate 90% of the international hunters visiting New Zealand to hunt are doing so on a safari style with large budget and contribute greatly to hunting scene and economically. NZ hunting culture and the do it yourself attitude, the attitude required to head out into the hills on public land and the gear, knowledge and most importantly time are not something most people are going to have on a 2-4 week "standard" holiday. That most working class people can take.
The largest competition to wild game on public land (doc) would be from student or backpacking internationals whom have the time 1-3+ months and the connections with locals to help either get them started and/or take them out to have a go, personally I encourage this.
Hiya Gibo. My great grandparents and I were born here. You might be a tourist - but I an NOT. If you're a tourist, wotdafuk are you doing hunting in MY country????
Wtf
I think you may have badly missed @Gibo s point!