Thread: Kaimanawas 1080 drop

Topgun,

- Why does DOC support 1080? Especially with their lack of funding.
- Why does Forest and Bird vehemently support 1080?
- Why does the government support 1080?
- Why does the AHB support 1080?

Pretty simple questions which I can answer easily.

Don't try and tell me a very small poison industry manages to bribe an entire government including opposition parties, DOC, AHB and F&B all the while also influence the studies done to the positive and negative effects of the toxin. Maybe all the antis just have shares in other poison companies.

My Grandfather was a die hard conservationist and studied the effects of 1080 and got into the forests before and after the drops. He was a very honest and intelligent man. He was a big fan of 1080, he said to me that it wasn't perfect but it was far far better than any other option we had. I've watched the Graff videos too.

What's your order of priorities:
- Deer hunting
- Forest conservation, fauna and flora
- Animal wellbeing/suffering

Originally Posted by Savage1

Topgun,

- Why does DOC support 1080? Especially with their lack of funding.
- Why does Forest and Bird vehemently support 1080?
- Why does the government support 1080?
- Why does the AHB support 1080?

Pretty simple questions which I can answer easily.

Don't try and tell me a very small poison industry manages to bribe an entire government including opposition parties, DOC, AHB and F&B all the while also influence the studies done to the positive and negative effects of the toxin. Maybe all the antis just have shares in other poison companies.

My Grandfather was a die hard conservationist and studied the effects of 1080 and got into the forests before and after the drops. He was a very honest and intelligent man. He was a big fan of 1080, he said to me that it wasn't perfect but it was far far better than any other option we had. I've watched the Graff videos too.

What's your order of priorities:
- Deer hunting
- Forest conservation, fauna and flora
- Animal wellbeing/suffering

Savage,
1. 1080 ( sodium mono fluoro acetate) is listed by the FBI as the 2nd most toxic SUPER toxin in existence. ( that should tell you something)
2. The stuff is banned in almost every country in the world apart from the US & Oz & they don't toss it out of monsoon buckets all over the countryside
and into waterways etc.
3. The shit kills everything that uses Oxygen ( known fact)
4. Every scientist who has worked for DOC or other depts who has produced adverse reports on the downstream effects of 1080 have lost their
jobs or contracts. ( Whiting-O'keefes, Mike Meade, Graham Cauley) just to name a few.
5. All TRUE hunters who have been into forested areas within the weeks & months after a drop find the bush DEAD, no birds,no animals,smell of dead
deer etc, no flies, no fuck all except bloody wasps.

You only have to watch "Poisoning Paradise" DVD to see what it does to our native birds, just imagine what the shit is doing to the bugs & beetles in the leaf
litter & in the streams & creeks.

So there ya go, you asked!!!! I'm sure you'll find plenty in that lot to pick holes in but what I have said is FACT & I'm sure that there are plenty of REAL hunters on this forum who will agree with my comments.

Originally Posted by top gun

Savage,
1. 1080 ( sodium mono fluoro acetate) is listed by the FBI as the 2nd most toxic SUPER toxin in existence. ( that should tell you something)
2. The stuff is banned in almost every country in the world apart from the US & Oz & they don't toss it out of monsoon buckets all over the countryside
and into waterways etc.
3. The shit kills everything that uses Oxygen ( known fact)
4. Every scientist who has worked for DOC or other depts who has produced adverse reports on the downstream effects of 1080 have lost their
jobs or contracts. ( Whiting-O'keefes, Mike Meade, Graham Cauley) just to name a few.
5. All TRUE hunters who have been into forested areas within the weeks & months after a drop find the bush DEAD, no birds,no animals,smell of dead
deer etc, no flies, no fuck all except bloody wasps.

You only have to watch "Poisoning Paradise" DVD to see what it does to our native birds, just imagine what the shit is doing to the bugs & beetles in the leaf
litter & in the streams & creeks.

So there ya go, you asked!!!! I'm sure you'll find plenty in that lot to pick holes in but what I have said is FACT & I'm sure that there are plenty of REAL hunters on this forum who will agree with my comments.

So you didn't answer a single one of those questions, just tried sidestepping the obvious as most antis do.

1 - No one cares what the FBI rate the poison as, it's irrelevant.
2 - We have a unique situation situation in this country in regards to having virtually no native mammals, whether other countries use it or not is irrelevant, they aren't in the same situation.
3 - No shit, it's a poison, you could say the same about salt, sulphuric acid, petrol, cyanide etc. Once again, irrelevant.
4 - That's a very broad sweeping statement, I haven't looked into each of their cases, were their studies peer reviewed? Shown to be biased or inaccurate?
5 - Are you saying that no 'true' hunters support 1080? What defines a true hunter? Is it possible to be a 'true' hunter and a conservationist at the same time?

I didn't ask for any of that, I asked specific questions and you decided to regurgitate ignorant statements and ignored what I asked.

I don't know why I bother, we've both made up our minds.

Originally Posted by Savage1

Topgun,

- Why does DOC support 1080? Especially with their lack of funding.
- Why does Forest and Bird vehemently support 1080?
- Why does the government support 1080?
- Why does the AHB support 1080?

Pretty simple questions which I can answer easily.

Don't try and tell me a very small poison industry manages to bribe an entire government including opposition parties, DOC, AHB and F&B all the while also influence the studies done to the positive and negative effects of the toxin. Maybe all the antis just have shares in other poison companies.

My Grandfather was a die hard conservationist and studied the effects of 1080 and got into the forests before and after the drops. He was a very honest and intelligent man. He was a big fan of 1080, he said to me that it wasn't perfect but it was far far better than any other option we had. I've watched the Graff videos too.

What's your order of priorities:
- Deer hunting
- Forest conservation, fauna and flora
- Animal wellbeing/suffering

Well, i tell you the answers to some of them!
1 Why does DOC support 1080......DOC are muppets of the Government..they get told what to do and do it, the Government tell them support it and thats it. Its no secret that anyone in DOC wont speak out about 1080 if they dont agree with the BS thats fed to the public otherwise they get sacked/end of story.

2 Why does forest and bird support 1080? ...... Who the fuck knows! Maybe they actually believe the 1080 works and is the best form of control to save the birds and the forests, as no doubt 1080 certainly wipes out possuoms, the bird egg eating and forest destroying machines they are lol. Others say its political, and as they joined up with the FED Farmers on support for 1080, these two hugely political players are right in the middle of the big business machine which is 1080, its a massive industry with big back handers, pest control is just a little part of the whole big business machine.


3 Why does the Government support 1080....... Its big business as stated before, pressured by very big politcal players in Forest and bird and Fed Farmers, its votes, its back handers on a big scale, its jobs, its politcal and lastly the Government owns the 1080 factories, its money...its Bs on a massive scale, ..no one will speak out about it, no one wants to slap the hand that feeds them..need i say more.


4AHB why they support it........ They dont care about the costs, they know it kills possums better than any other method, it works. Its what matters to them, and they in the same boat, political pressure, involved in a industry which isnt just all about pest control, its far bigger than that.

Originally Posted by deer243

Well, i tell you the answers to some of them!
1 Why does DOC support 1080......DOC are muppets of the Government..they get told what to do and do it, the Government tell them support it and thats it. Its no secret that anyone in DOC wont speak out about 1080 if they dont agree with the BS thats fed to the public otherwise they get sacked/end of story.

2 Why does forest and bird support 1080? ...... Who the fuck knows! Maybe they actually believe the 1080 works and is the best form of control to save the birds and the forests, as no doubt 1080 certainly wipes out possuoms, the bird egg eating and forest destroying machines they are lol. Others say its political, and as they joined up with the FED Farmers on support for 1080, these two hugely political players are right in the middle of the big business machine which is 1080, its a massive industry with big back handers, pest control is just a little part of the whole big business machine.


3 Why does the Government support 1080....... Its big business as stated before, pressured by very big politcal players in Forest and bird and Fed Farmers, its votes, its back handers on a big scale, its jobs, its politcal and lastly the Government owns the 1080 factories, its money...its Bs on a massive scale, ..no one will speak out about it, no one wants to slap the hand that feeds them..need i say more.


4AHB why they support it........ They dont care about the costs, they know it kills possums better than any other method, it works. Its what matters to them, and they in the same boat, political pressure, involved in a industry which isnt just all about pest control, its far bigger than that.

Shit oh deer, I'm lost for words there deer243. I couldn't have put it better myself!!!! BLOODY WELL DONE THAT MAN!!!!!

Have a go at THAT Savage!!!!

Originally Posted by deer243

Well, i tell you the answers to some of them!
1 Why does DOC support 1080......DOC are muppets of the Government..they get told what to do and do it, the Government tell them support it and thats it. Its no secret that anyone in DOC wont speak out about 1080 if they dont agree with the BS thats fed to the public otherwise they get sacked/end of story.

2 Why does forest and bird support 1080? ...... Who the fuck knows! Maybe they actually believe the 1080 works and is the best form of control to save the birds and the forests, as no doubt 1080 certainly wipes out possuoms, the bird egg eating and forest destroying machines they are lol. Others say its political, and as they joined up with the FED Farmers on support for 1080, these two hugely political players are right in the middle of the big business machine which is 1080, its a massive industry with big back handers, pest control is just a little part of the whole big business machine.


3 Why does the Government support 1080....... Its big business as stated before, pressured by very big politcal players in Forest and bird and Fed Farmers, its votes, its back handers on a big scale, its jobs, its politcal and lastly the Government owns the 1080 factories, its money...its Bs on a massive scale, ..no one will speak out about it, no one wants to slap the hand that feeds them..need i say more.


4AHB why they support it........ They dont care about the costs, they know it kills possums better than any other method, it works. Its what matters to them, and they in the same boat, political pressure, involved in a industry which isnt just all about pest control, its far bigger than that.

1)So DOC uses a product that does more harm on the forest than it does good because they're told to and they're all silenced by threat of losing their jobs?

2)How big is the 1080 "big business machine"? How many tonne do they go through and how much does it cost per tonne? And do you really think it is because of back handers that Forest and Bird support 1080?! Is that seriously the best that you can come up with?

3)How is 1080 big business? It's tiny on the scale of things! So the government bribes DOC, F&B and all the other political parties to support 1080 just to keep their factory going. Where do you come up with this crap?! Did it occur to you that maybe F&B knows more than you?

4) No doubt AHB/OSPRI supports it because it is so effective.

So basically summing up your view, the government owns the factory that produces 1080 so they force 1080 to be rained upon the native bush regardless of it causing more harm than good, and they do this by back handers to all people that use it and applying political pressure to DOC, F&B, OSPRI, opponent political parties etc etc just to turn a profit, much of which comes directly from it's own funding through DOC and OSPRI and this profit must be of such an amount to offset all of costs incurred by applying it and paying off everybody to keep their mouths shut and be such a huge amount that it warrants the risk of such corruption in the highest level of government.

My view is that it quite simply works and despite its numerous faults, it's the best option that we currently have. Nobody needs to be paid off.

Originally Posted by Savage1

1)So DOC uses a product that does more harm on the forest than it does good because they're told to and they're all silenced by threat of losing their jobs?

2)How big is the 1080 "big business machine"? How many tonne do they go through and how much does it cost per tonne? And do you really think it is because of back handers that Forest and Bird support 1080?! Is that seriously the best that you can come up with?

3)How is 1080 big business? It's tiny on the scale of things! So the government bribes DOC, F&B and all the other political parties to support 1080 just to keep their factory going. Where do you come up with this crap?! Did it occur to you that maybe F&B knows more than you?

4) No doubt AHB/OSPRI supports it because it is so effective.

So basically summing up your view, the government owns the factory that produces 1080 so they force 1080 to be rained upon the native bush regardless of it causing more harm than good, and they do this by back handers to all people that use it and applying political pressure to DOC, F&B, OSPRI, opponent political parties etc etc just to turn a profit, much of which comes directly from it's own funding through DOC and OSPRI and this profit must be of such an amount to offset all of costs incurred by applying it and paying off everybody to keep their mouths shut and be such a huge amount that it warrants the risk of such corruption in the highest level of government.

My view is that it quite simply works and despite its numerous faults, it's the best option that we currently have. Nobody needs to be paid off.

There you go again. Being all logical.