National's Todd McLay will be the minister along with Agriculture and Forestry.
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National's Todd McLay will be the minister along with Agriculture and Forestry.
he need to tell DOC twig& tweet and F&G to pull their heads in -a new broom sweeps clean.
let us hope so!
It's a govt. They'll find a way to screw us over or tax us. Probably both.
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Yes to DOC and F&B. I don't see F&G as the enemy, somewhat impotent on occasions (there's some real funny stuff going on up here with them), but I've always thought their heart is in the right place. Naive?Quote:
Originally Posted by kotuku
How is he going to manage the conflict when on one hand hunters want game to shoot and on the other forestry and agriculture are in his ear about the amount of feral animals around?
This one (Gov) likely less. They have appointed the Minister, now it's up to us to mine it. If we take a negative approach we certainly will get more of what we don't deserve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rn-85
Perhaps by encouraging forestry and agriculture to welcome recreational hunting and improve access???Quote:
Originally Posted by Ned
100% agreedQuote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
yes a soultion that benefits all -controls pest levels ,doesnt cost farmers an arm and a leg ,less work for politicians .Not more whining academics .overall an application of good old fashioned commonsense .mind you we as hunters must also step up to the mark "use it dont abuse it "tell people what you want and how youllgo about it .lack of simple communication is one of the biggest pitfalls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shearer
It's worth considering what might happen if that isn't enoughQuote:
Originally Posted by Shearer
Yes. Recreational hunters don't have a snowball's chance of controlling numbers now. The Game Council will have a role to play in an integrated approach. NZDA too.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
- A management approach using recreational hunters in targeted areas (the RHA's are an example of this not working up to now).
- A management approach using pro cullers and aerial selective culling in targeted areas
- A straight ground and aerial gunship culling approach in targeted areas.
- It might even mean subsidising private land owners adjacent to the DOC estate and other high population areas to get them to participate in aerial/pro culling.
Sone reasonable questions might be -
Is it genuinely possible to find a realistic, enduring and sustainable solution to wild animal management that adequately satisfies the values of all parties?
If so, what could this look like? What changes to legislation would need to happen to allow implementation? What changes to legislation would need to happen to make it enduring?
Has any historical state of affairs in wild animal management in NZ met any of the criteria of 'an acceptable compromise to all', 'realistic' or 'enduring and sustainable' ? What can be learned from the past?
Yeh I get that access will be a quick win.
But good luck to him managing the beast that is health and safety and public liability with this.
you know something????Quote:
Originally Posted by Ned
that is so bloody easy to fix its not funny
its dead simple in fact.
yo uwant them gone??? you want them controlled?? right open your bloody gates and let people access them OR we will charge you to do it via less palitable means.
the airborne control via shooting has so many advantages in these modern times at thier disposal,the deer/pigs wont last if the $$$ are put in to put birds in the air....there was whinging on TV in last 48 hours from southland about animal numbers again...
agree 100%tahr we need to give them a chance to do something...
but if they dont allow access they get zip.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
[QUOTE=kotuku;1520672]he need to tell DOC twig& tweet and F&G to pull their heads in -a new broom sweeps clean.
yes but look at who we get as Conservation minister - that to me as a hunter is a real worry
we look to the past ,but wear blinkers,when we do so.
forsure the numbers are high right now....BUT unlike in the 40s.... the animals dont have the large untraveled areas as breeding grounds..they arent building up unobserved, eg even our big stations are no longer a two day ride out to the back for a muster 3 times a year. its hour or two on a quad bike or 10 minutes in a whirly bird.
we arent bombing up mobs with an opensighted 303 and hoping for a kill or 2.
you lot are pretty darn sharp with modern rifles/scopes n rangefinders...400 yards is no longer a very long shot for most of you.
thermals have just about replaced a spotlight...and even the spotlights are leap years ahead of what we had...my wee magtoch is better than the landing light powered by tractor battery in a wheel barrow....its not only a hell of a lot more portable,it lasts longer and has better light.
when allowed in to have a go..and the shackles are removed,we the general public DO HAVE A CHANCE..... but removing those shackles to begin with needs to happen.
I'm not saying it's not possible. Just trying to look at his position from all angles. You can't keep all the people happy all the time.
If he's going to balance this then some people are going to be having property rights curtailed surely. Where will the liability be when open access into high feral number areas results in numptys letting stock out, causing damage to tracks, bombing up feral animals and just leaving carcasses everywhere etc etc.
I just find it an interesting set up that this guy has landed these 3 (2?) portfolios.
A simple change to legislation by Govt that allows hinds only by WARO will be a win win for many. We call that a game management approach. Could have been applied to tahr but the National Park regulations said '0' density. In its current form as you know - boom and bust cycle.
man that is a pessimistic/negative outlook...did someone pee in your coolaid this morning????
liability will be where its always been.....if someone causes damage and its proven they will be liable to pay...and told to piss off and not come back... but you cant have it both ways...if you stop everyone coming on...and arent actively seen to be controlling numbers,you cant moan about them and/or ask for a handout of taxpayers money to fix an issue of your own making.
Bloody hell, the guy hasnt even had a chance to sit behind his new office desk! The outcome of this coalition as a bloody sight better than we've had for years! I'd like to think it will work for all the parties involved and instead of participating in the great Kiwi dogmatic tall poppy syndrome, Im gonna give this 3 part coalition the thumbs up. Theres enough members on here that said nothing would ever happen, that if National or ACT got in nothing would happen. And then we add in Winny - well hes been around long enough to actually be very good at plenty of stuff, Foreign Affairs is an excellent example. And I doubt ACT would have got the concessions they did if NZ First werent on the same page. So overall we've had a fantastic day. Now stop all the BS and get in behind them and offer constructive comments rather than all the negative BS that many are so happy to dish out.
POST OF THE YEAR!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Husky1600#2
Heck I'm trying to help the guy find some solutionsQuote:
Originally Posted by Husky1600#2
I like think the positive but the cynic in me .....
Guess time will tell......
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I still cringe at the thought of Mahuta representing us on the international stage. I can just imagine foreign diplomats/pollies thinking WTF????Quote:
Originally Posted by Husky1600#2
I work in forestry, but wonder why animal pests to our business are any more someone elses problem than the insects that might challenge hort crops, for example?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ned
For years we have had to deal with goats coing over boundary from adjoining PCL, and DoC eithera rent interested or unable too fund control on that land ..... why is it now different 'cos its deer?
In my observation most of the grizzling is coming for those engaged in new forestry planting so they had the opportunity to assess the challenges associated with the subject lands prior to acquisition?
Because Billionaire/Multinational Hedge funds neeb their carbon credit tax scams subsidised even more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx
Absolutely. Night shooting has come a long way since having to have a spotlight hooked up to the ute battery or worse having to lug a 12v battery around on foot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
we didnt have side by sides or even 4 wheel farm bikes back then either.... we havent just had a world war ,loosing large proportion of young outdoors men either... covid gave deer 2 years break...not even in same ballpark... for sure the herds are much more widespread than they were back then..but arguably so are people...there are a LOT less remote areas that arent watched/hunted.
and lets be completely honest about it...
if we really wanted to hammer an area hard with recreational hunters,we could do it with little bit of help quite easily. dont need 6 weeks and a pack horse train to hunt the Landsborough anymore . and to hark back to a recently shown awesome video...the deer were in pockets in snow conditions,those 60 hinds wouldnt stand a chance if a hughes 500 came over the ridge with half competent operators, out after scalps ,who didnt have to stop and recover meat..search n destroy from the air is terribly effective and THANKFULLY we have never seen it used widespread....just look at tahrmageddon and how worried we all were......if that happened widespread,each spring the deer numbers would be hammered pretty darn quickly
I know a few guys who made a bit of money and bought themselves a bit of land adjacent to DOC land so as to enjoy recreational hunting and shooting. Their property do not necessarily have to make a return, braking even can be enough for them.
They tend to manage their property pretty well, with trapping …etc. But one thing for sure, they want deer ( and sometime pigs ) on their land , and only their mate to come around and nobody else.
Another point, the handful of professional cullers i am talking to at a moment are shooting deers in the 100’s monthly if not weekly.
Even if farmers were opening their doors to weekend recreational hunters, I do not think they would achieve what professional cullers can do 5 to 6 days of a week every week.
regarding the new minister for fisheries, Shane jones , I think he will play against the minister for fishing and hunting, and probably letting the industry he represents carry on doing what they do to the detriment of recreational fishers, notably in the hauraki gulf.
Having Todd McLay there, might also be a way for National to have a better control over the indépendance of fish and game over what they do and their policies on cleaner rivers, which federated farmers don’t always like too much…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
The issue this time is not with public land and deer invading private from public. Its the reverse. Having sold my farm in the king country at the peak of the carbon buyup, I had quite some time to talk with the cullers sent in to remove animals. My farm was pretty easy because I actively managed the populations of deer, goats, pigs and possums. That meant that over 900hectares, I didnt allow a deer population of more than 300 animals, a pig population of more than 100 and a goat population of 1-200.
To achieve that I had to cull around 75 deer a year- mostly does, up too 200 pigs a year and 60-70 goats a year.
The result was that in the forestry initial cull, they shot maybe 100 deer, 80 pigs and next to no goats as Id already done it. But they were telling me that the other properties they had bought they were getting initial culls of 700-1000 deer per property.
That tells me that like me, the farmers loved seeing and having animals about. But also that they were making no attempt to manage them.
Thats because management takes effort, time and concessions. Dealing with 300 odd carcases, if you are not prepared too shoot too waste, is a big job in itself. You also cant just let anyone in to hunt them unchaperoned. Because sadly there is quite a level of inexperience and poor decision making in the wider hunting community. You have to actively target females, you have to find a way to make allowing recreational hunters onto your land cover the costs, and you have to be prepared to do some kill to waste.
What this government could possibly do to help would be look at ways to make it easier for wild game meat to be allowed onto the local market.
What Doc could do is look at finding greater and easier access solutions to public land.
What recreational hunters could do is become a bit more professional and reliable.
The problem with selling the meat is poison, some landowners want the deer shot but don’t want to pay but due to boadificum we can’t sell the deer for 3 years. We tell the farmer not to put it out again but they do and then moan that we can’t shoot the deer
Yep then thats a farmer problem. The truth is he could find a solution if he was motivated too.
That's the dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by Friwi
back in the day..the cullers shot 1400 goats off our farm in months before we bought it..similar numbers of all the neighbours..... that put a hell of a big dent in population and it wasnt hard to keep on top of it from then onwards.
that was on foot too.
come the boom year of high goat prices,we saw poaching from the sky.
I agree totally,there will always be farms where some deer and some pigs are wanted,long may it stay that way....but if numbers are that high they causing issues elsewhere,it will need to be addressed....and yes the DOC controlled land is the same...how they manage to get away with rampant gorse is beyond me...its a noxious weed..it should be controlled.
Rules for thee but not for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
I wouldn't get your knickers in a knot about gorse to be fair...its actually a fantastic nurse crop for our NZ natives...
Just take a look at the Able Tasman. When I was lets say 5-10years old. Gorse ruled the coastline from marahau to anchorage. I'm almost 50 now and what a difference!!
The native seedlings have pushed their way thru the gorse having been protected by it for years. Gorse can't live without sunlight so it falls apart and dies. In the process it release's a tonne of nitrogen and the natives get a massive boost.
There are far worse weeds to worry about..
Pine trees.
Dougles fir.
Pampas grass.
Hakea.
To name a few [emoji41]
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Douglas fir is one of the best trees ever to plant in nz. Love them, fukn awesome, more the merrier, I'd love to see half the McKenzie planted with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by kukuwai
You must be joking !!Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyJason
It can subside above our natural bushline so is one of the greatest threats to NZs alpine environment.
Obviously you don't enjoy hunting the tops [emoji23]
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