https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/120...-national-park
Credible witness too :cool:
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/120...-national-park
Credible witness too :cool:
Would be awesome they are a majestic animal
What a joke. For a couple of seconds and they flew around again and it was gone ...yeah right. another alien in the sky bs. Theres no fu ken moose left in nz, anyone thatbelieves that crap needs a doctor
I've seen deer hide in an area of `scrub not much larger than their body size from out of a helicopter, so wouldn't question that if a moose had been seen on a clearing and then walked back into the bush you wouldn't see if again
you may not see the animal, but there is a good chance you would see sign...?
Not long ago the Herald or Stuff, I forget which, ran a 3 part documentary on the search for the moose. Me and the wife watched them online and they were not just interesting but very well-made, and highly informative. Whether you’re a believer or not they really are well worth watching.
There were some specific recent examples of fresh sign left that would in my humble view be very hard to explain without the presence of an extremely large ungulate, larger than a purebred bull wapiti. I came away hopeful that they are there but not entirely convinced, but equally hopeful that if they are, no one finds them (or if they do they keep quiet about it). If there is a tiny remnant population in the forest, the fastest way to destroy it would be for everyone to go looking for it all at once...
Anyway whether you’re sceptical or hopeful the documentaries are worth a watch, even if all you come away with is the unshakeable realisation that Fjordland is all but an impenetrable wilderness that only nutters and masochists choose to spend their recreational time in!
Alot of the speculation over the last 10 odd years, stemmed from a prominent Te Anau helicopter operator who supposedly saw one.
I believed it at the time.
I've read and enjoyed Ken Tustin's 'A wild moose chase'. It convinced me that there is [or was then] a small surviving population -how long they will remain sustainable is questionable.
I don't know Ken at all, but while Moose are clearly an obsession for him he is a very experienced knowledgeable hunter/biologist. You might argue that he 'wants them to exist', but he seemed to approach the search in a balanced and scientific manner. From memory his evidence included a cast antler from the 1970's, tracks and browse sign in the 1990's and then DNA evidence in the early 2000's.
So if you stumbled across a moose while hunting in Fiordland the question is, Would you shoot it?
In my mind the question goes around and around.
It would prove there is/was moose there but a real risk of tipping them toward extinction in NZ.
I think i saw/read the same or a similar material on Ken. One of the quotes that stuck with me was at the end when they asked him if he did find one and get a photo or other clear evidence, would he actually tell the media and make a big thing of it. he said no....
You cannot dismiss the facts, the sign , browse lines and DNA are sure signs moose exist. This sighting only confirms the fact they are still there but in very low numbers as sightings like this are as rare as hens teeth. I hope there are enough around to keep the population going. As for shooting one down there …. no, better to use a camera.
Haha theres your evidence right there that kens in a dreamland . Hes for years made a big thing in the media and where ever he can be heard on trying to prove that moose exist.
Everytime the media goes cold on the subject surprise, surprise, some report or some evidence appears and hes in the thick of it.
Im convinced hes drummed it up himself or has influenced people involved to keep the dream alive. All evidence to date is very debatable . Theres still no real 100 % evidence out there that moose are still alive in NZ.
Thousands of game cam pictures in so called known areas have produced nothing.
Years of helicopters flying over the area and just now the only so called sighting from some 24 year old who just happens to team up with KEN and go for a look and find no evidence at all , not even a footprint of a very heavy animal seen not long before for a couple of seconds in the air(no doubt a deer)
Hours of searching from someone that wants to believe that moose are there so badly influence sign you see etc to a bias level and you convince yourself its a moose when it could and is likely a deer instead.
Nope, said it before, until someone shoots one, gets a proven photo or get s 100 % certain evidence ones there its all make believe.
Sorry, Moose arent a smart animal, they huge, yes, its a big area but so many years gone by, so many years searching, so many aircraft flying over. Trail cams set up, it goes on and on.
Yes, still nothing that confirms anything. Reminds me of loch ness, no proven facts but so called sightings that always come up etc.
And that statement above about he wouldnt tell the media or make a big deal about it is a joke lol
He and supporters been making a big deal about it for years and he still pops up to have his time in the flood lights.
Tustin got hair that was proven to be moose when its dna was tested .https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=10348890
Greetings All,
Isn't it great that mention of an animal that may have died out in NZ decades ago can still generate interest. Moose, or Elk as they are known in Scandinavia, clearly survived and bred in NZ for over 40 years. This was in spite of their liberation in an area unsuited to them. Was the shooting of a bull and a cow in 1952 the last straw for them? Possibly, probably even. There were however still moose remaining in late 1952. Today who would know for sure. Probably they are all gone and yet it is still OK to dream a little.
Grandpamac.
The DNA evidence shows that they have survived here for a long time with no support, it's not a huge stretch to assume that some are still alive
As to their elusiveness, people on this forum more so than any other group should know how stags can be "bush ninjas" - why shouldn't a moose hide and do it successfully?
There's no doubt we all live in hope. Imagine the headlines if there was indisputable evidence a moose were discovered alive! So yes, its great that an animal which might have last been seen in the mid-1970's can generate so much interest.
1970's?
Yes, evidently. If I recall correctly it was around 1974 and the sighting was made by a very well known Forest Service worker.
Would I shoot one if I stumbled across one...? No way in hell would I pull the trigger. Would I tell the world I saw one? Probably not until I was on my deathbed.
I just think it is kinda cool. I have never met Ken but both he and his wife strike me as good people. Logic would suggest to me that the shear volume of effort that two obviously intelligent people have put in is for a very good reason. There is enough evidence to keep them coming back. I have never seen a moose in the flesh but I sure as hell would know one if I saw one. As for shooting one, well damned if you do, damned if you don't. Simply by reading through this post it is clear that even a photo would be questioned too ;) For me if I shot one, a little piece of me would die with it. I would suggest the people who would shoot one are probably the people who need their name in the paper or the recognition of others. They would also fit largely within the 'if I don't shoot it someone else will' and 'no one will tell me what I can and cant shoot' band. If I saw a moose in Fiordland, I would live with a smile on my face whenever I think back on it. If I possibly signed the death of a mystical species in NZ it would always be remembered with sadness. I understand why Ken might say nothing. There is always some glory hunter out there who would just want to rush down and shoot the last one.
People have bloody short memories regarding the DNA results it seems.
Twist the story and remember what you want to remember seems to be the modern thing.
care to enlarge on that?
We should let another pair go to give this one some company. Think how lonely this moose has been all these years
Having met Ken T I think he is an intelligent and methodical person.
Besides, what sane person would waste so much time, money and energy searching for something that they think, is not there?
Don't forget his wife must be crazy as well.
Dunno what I believe. Is it possible there are moose still in Nz? Imo yup.
I can tell you Ken believes it and is rather convincing face to face.
I have only helped kill a handful of moose but I have seen and watched hundreds in their native areas.
Theyre not dumb. But can be deceived.
They can hide in plain site. Sneak up to with in yrds of people looking for them and dissappear in a flash once someone makes a mistake.
Same as any large game animal.
Hands down they're my favorite animal to hunt. I just don't like all the work after you get one. [emoji16]
It not until you size one up on the ground do you appreciate how huge these animals are. The head alone weighs as much as some yearlings I have shot.
I have been told a moose story that has me scratching my head due to the location and credibility of the witness just thru his innocent ignorance of what he was looking at. He thought it was a funny looking horse and thought nothing of it.
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I know someone who brought moose hair back from overseas in order to plant it.
He didn't plant it as soon as some home truths were explained to him.
Anyone who would do that for a laugh is as stupid as they come imo.
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All of the above. And just what a wank thing it is to do.
Wasting peoples time and money knowingly is just a cock move.
Pretty sure there is also a slight diff in DNA due to where NZ moose originated. But not a hundy on that.
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Ok. Not really factual though offering hints and knowledge of rumours. Not digging at you, but rumours is how a myth or legend is created. The Moose existing or not, is a potential reality either way. Facts supporting either case can't be ignored. I'd like to think they still exist, but I feel it is highly unlikely they do.
Yea me to;, Id like to think they still exist down there but unlikely. But not impossible
I've read Ken Tustins book and very interesting. I personally know two of the guys who found hair and had it positively identified back in 2001. Ken refers to this in his book and the only reason these guys thought it was even worth testing was because of the "browse height" which they said was well above what they could reach, and definitely higher than any deer or Wap could reach even standing on its hind legs.
Does make you wonder
My two cents without having an idea of the environment they were spotted in except it's probably step terrain with cold streams and alpine lakes, is that a Moose in summer bulks up on aquatic vegetation for calories and sodium load, you'd think by now one would have been spotted in the water, also younger bulls during rut travel miles looking for a mate and are pretty much fearless, the fact a roaring Wapiti hunter hasn't been charged by a love-sick moose never mind heard one is strange if they did exist. But I wouldn't know how remote this area of the fiordland is so anything could be possible.
Listen to the Educated Hunter Podcast, Ben sounds very convinced what he saw was a moose, and given his straight up personality and experience spotting moose, there seems no reason as to why he would make up a yarn. I've always believed there are still moose in there somewhere, I've heard enough rumors from locals over the years to keep the spark alive, and knowing the country reasonably well, I can see how a small population could live there without being found. We had four wild Angus bulls hiding in 700ha of pine forest and you'd ocassionally see them, or a bit of sign, took 8 years before we managed to track them down in a spot where we could catch them :D
Did you have your red cape @JoshC for that show down;)