The NZ balloting system?

To that end about public land and free range animals, I am still a bit unclear about the balloting. As I understand it, if one receives a ballot one then has access to hunt a region that is restricted as to the number of hunters allowed in that area. The locals still have to hike it in whereas foreigners can chopper in, which pisses of many of the local hunters.

So far correct?

Where are these balloted regions? Is it only during the roar? Is it only for stag? Why the balloting system? Too many hunters and too many accidents? Are the beasts really so much better there?

Here in the US many states have a lottery system for big game but in large part to manage the number of animals possibly being taken in a given season. As I understand it, the NZ Government views the Red Stag largely as a vermin and has periodic "1840" poison drops. I am trying to wrap my mind around some sense of conservation by the government while a plan for partial eradication is in place.

Thanks.

Scotty.


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Its 1080 poison.
Ballots are for lots of areas from the far north to the far south for varing species.
I am not actually sure what gets an area "balloted" but someone will know on here.

I would Advise against a Wapity ballot, your pure Elk are far superior.

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Originally Posted by summitdogracing

Where are these balloted regions? Is it only during the roar? Is it only for stag? Why the balloting system? Too many hunters and too many accidents? Are the beasts really so much better there?

Thanks.

Scotty.


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Woodhill is a balloted area. The deer herd is a 'captive' one ie..........it is separated from being 'replenished' from other areas by its geographical location on a large peninsular. By running balloted hunts, it allows the herd to be managed for sustainability. Ballots also allow safety conditions to be imposed and enforced as well as limitations on what may be taken as part of the herd management. All the fees for the ballot are put back into herd management as well as providing the opportunity for TAKH ( Take a Kid Hunting)

Depending on the 'Kill returns', extra doe permits may be issued to keep the balance between male/females. ( Its not a 'Bucks' only system and eradication is not the aim)

The area the herd is located in is not ideal for trophies due to the type of feed available (pine forest) and the ballot enables us to keep deer numbers at a sustainable level taking into account the feed available.

(note: We have never had a firearms related hunting accident although we have had a couple of lost hunters)

Allgood
WFMC

There is very little balloted publish land in NZ, especially outside of South Westland and the Wapiti Area of Fiordland - both of which are only balloted during the Roar(or Tahr rut for South Westland/Haast).

The remaining hunt-able public land is free access and regardless of the origin on the hunter, local or foreign, either can walk or fly (provide landing permits are able to be sort of the helicopter operators - not an issue in most areas).

Are the animals any better in the balloted areas? I'm not sure. There are plenty of great wild stags all over the place and many of these are a lot closer to the road and road ends than many think.

I do all my hunting on public land, get a permit every 3 months and go where I want, when I want.

Also a visitor may fly in and land with certain operators where it is illegal for us to be flown into,We have to walk.

This pisses people off.

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Also a visitor may fly in and land with certain operators where it is illegal for us to be flown into,We have to walk.

This pisses people off.

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Where the fuck?!?

Wilderness areas may be flown into and landed on by varios AATH outfitters but not by us.
So you can walk for days into some of our most remote country in accessable by air plan a stalk on a trophy bull and have a chopper drop some rich fat fuck on a ridge and heard the animals towards him to shoot at his leisure.
Or maybe that loophole has been closed now. I sure hope so.

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Wilderness areas may be flown into and landed on by varios AATH outfitters but not by us.

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By "us" do you mean heli operators WITHOUT an AATH concession/permit? Not trying to be a dick, I just don't know how this form of "hunting" works.

http://www.doc.govt.nz/get-involved/...rophy-hunting/

Us in this context means ethical hunters.

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Originally Posted by stretch

By "us" do you mean heli operators WITHOUT an AATH concession/permit? Not trying to be a dick, I just don't know how this form of "hunting" works.

Aerially-assisted trophy hunting (AATH): Apply for permits

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Huh, I see they show the Olivine Wilderness Area as a AATH concession area. Directly contradicting the National Parks Act and Mt Aspiring National Park management plan. Bastards.

Vietnamcam,

Is it your impression that the NZ hunters disfavor the foreign hunters using choppers to get into remote areas, foreigners getting ballots, or just foreign hunters in general?

In hunting either Tahr or Chamois are the my typically found in fairly remote places that require a several day hike?

I could have sworn I watched a program in YouTube where a Kiwi choppered in a massive tent, to include an iron wood burning stove for a Tahr hunt with just his Kiwi mate. Would that have been against the regulations prohibiting locals from being dropped into a site?


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For tahr there is a ballot each year where you can access the blocks by chopper, that you normally aren't allowed to fly in to ( you can only use the chopper to fly to the designated campsite). Anyone is allowed to put in for these blocks. These are not the only places you can hunt tahr.
There are quite a few places where you can hunt tahr right by the road that you can drive a 2wd along. You might not get a big 12" plus bull there, but you will see and shoot tahr. Also lots/even more places where you can access tahr hunting with a one day walk. Also huts that you can fly into year around. Chamois hunting is similar.
Kiwi hunters get pissed off with AATH (Aerially assisted trophy hunting) where hunters(?) are allowed to hound/herd tahr from a helicopter and shoot them. The AATH permit gives the guide helicopter access to areas normal kiwi hunters cannot get helicopter access to.

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Originally Posted by summitdogracing

Vietnamcam,

Is it your impression that the NZ hunters disfavor the foreign hunters using choppers to get into remote areas, foreigners getting ballots, or just foreign hunters in general?

In hunting either Tahr or Chamois are the my typically found in fairly remote places that require a several day hike?

I could have sworn I watched a program in YouTube where a Kiwi choppered in a massive tent, to include an iron wood burning stove for a Tahr hunt with just his Kiwi mate. Would that have been against the regulations prohibiting locals from being dropped into a site?


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Answered by stug above. We dont dislike foreign hunters we dislike AATH.

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Stug's comment bought a question to mind. Do the tahr and chamois tend to live in the same regions or are they geographically separated by mountain ranges?

I appreciate your patience with my questions.

Scotty


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Chamois have a range that includes the expanse of the southern alps. Thar occupy the same areas but limited from as far south as the Arawhata to north of the Hokitika river.
Thar as a rule thar will live at higher elevations.

The problem is NZ hunters do not participate in AATH due to ethics.

It is an activity setup to support foreign hunters with money to take our game animals with assistance from a helicopter.
These people are allowed to land and hunt areas we as kiwis cannot.
If you come across a Himalayan Thar or Chamois mount in your country take a look at the person who took it.
You will be able to make your own assumption if they climbed some hard country to take it or shot it with the assistance of a machine.
I would say 99.99 percent of thar mounts in the US shot in NZ, were shot with a helicopter involved.


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Originally Posted by stug

For tahr there is a ballot each year where you can access the blocks by chopper, that you normally aren't allowed to fly in to ( you can only use the chopper to fly to the designated campsite). Anyone is allowed to put in for these blocks. These are not the only places you can hunt tahr.
There are quite a few places where you can hunt tahr right by the road that you can drive a 2wd along. You might not get a big 12" plus bull there, but you will see and shoot tahr. Also lots/even more places where you can access tahr hunting with a one day walk. Also huts that you can fly into year around. Chamois hunting is similar.
Kiwi hunters get pissed off with AATH (Aerially assisted trophy hunting) where hunters(?) are allowed to hound/herd tahr from a helicopter and shoot them. The AATH permit gives the guide helicopter access to areas normal kiwi hunters cannot get helicopter access to.

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I don't tend to like foreign hunters getting into place where im not allowed because of the size of there wallet, I also don't like foreign hunters being able to ballot for the same areas as a kiwi and drawing ahead of a kiwi, that in my opinion is wrong.


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Where you been fella?
Got any snapper yet?

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Originally Posted by Smiddy

I don't tend to like foreign hunters getting into place where im not allowed because of the size of there wallet, I also don't like foreign hunters being able to ballot for the same areas as a kiwi and drawing ahead of a kiwi, that in my opinion is wrong.


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We've discussed this previously.

I simply don't care ( tho it's a disgusting practice )how many Tahr they haze on Lillybank or "free range " trophies they shoot on Ngamatea or Poronui. It's private land, so their rules.
The public estate ( DOC land ) maintained and administered out of the public purse ( your and my taxes ), should be for the use of NZ hunters exclusively.
And I have little if any reciprocal hunting rights in most countries I may want to visit.....without mentioning the bullshit associated with taking my own firearm there.

We are a soft touch.

B

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Originally Posted by R93

Where you been fella?
Got any snapper yet?

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Building a jet boat last couple months, nearly there, no snaps for me, haven't had the line out much


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Originally Posted by shift14

We've discussed this previously.

I simply don't care ( tho it's a disgusting practice )how many Tahr they haze on Lillybank or "free range " trophies they shoot on Ngamatea or Poronui. It's private land, so their rules.
The public estate ( DOC land ) maintained and administered out of the public purse ( your and my taxes ), should be for the use of NZ hunters exclusively.
And I have little if any reciprocal hunting rights in most countries I may want to visit.....without mentioning the bullshit associated with taking my own firearm there.

We are a soft touch.

B

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Yes agree, they can shoot all the animals on private land they want.
We pay our taxes every week therefore we should have rights to those animals on public land over any foreign hunter


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smiddy

Building a jet boat last couple months, nearly there, no snaps for me, haven't had the line out much


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I hear there are a few about. Especially north.
I am going to get out when the weather improves.
How big is the JB?

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Originally Posted by R93

I hear there are a few about. Especially north.
I am going to get out when the weather improves.
How big is the JB?

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3m with 110hp engine


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I am not aware of any regulations that prohibit or preclude foreigners from hunting on federal land, e. g., BLM property. The general requirement is that one have a valid hunting license.

In regards to the individual states, the only limitation I am aware of is that non-residents must purchase an "out-of-state" license and the appropriate tag(s), which is applicable to everyone, not just foreigners. From the following link, it appears that a license and tag may not be required in every situation.

http://bighorncanyonranch.com/?page_id=21

If you want to speak to speak to a guide I know about hunting in Wyoming, I am happy to pass on his number.

Scotty


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