Thread: NZ Hunter Adventures - Red Roar - Part 2 - tonight!

Originally Posted by GregD

Gimp, the wobbly unlockable swivel of the Neopod is a barstard, so we stole an idea off the much better Javelin and made up that magnetic fitting with a female fitting in the stock, and the male fitting attached to the bipod - the opposite way round to how they come. We also incorporated a dog clutch in the male/female connection to eliminate the swivel, as the neopod's quickly adjustable leg length makes the swivel unnecessary. Probably wouldn't bother again, just use a Javelin bipod and be done with it!

Na, Federal don't load the ammo for the 7mm Fatmax, its a wildcat. But we use Federal components and do carry our ammo in those great Federal plastic ammo carriers.

And Smiddy, Gimp hit the nail on the head. No point going looking for that stag, he went out under an R44 along with a bunch of others back in October/November, and many more since. A certain helicopter operator has had great pleasure in rubbing our noses in that one! They have absolutely smashed the whole herd both east coast and west coast since we left that stag, your saw the pics of heaps of velvety stags in the episode. As Willie said last night, its an absolute travesty and it will take years for one of our great trophy herds to recover. The photos I get sent regularly of what they are shooting is enough to make you sick...but as Willie said, they aren't breaking any laws. Roll on the GAC getting some funding to employ staff to finally get some Herds of Special Interest established for our premier trophy herds. That is the only way this boom and bust destruction will come to an end.

And we wear Lowa Tibets on a trip like that. Good grip on wet rocks, but its also a matter of knowing which rocks to stand on. I'm getting too old to jump too far- you see how much further Willie got with his jump!

Great episode Greg. Well done on the old ten. I spent many days in that area when I was at Lincoln 12 or so years ago, so know it well. Never took a stag out of there, although I did see several that would be absolute rippers given a chance to mature. Such a pity it's getting a reaming. Thought Willy's words were quite educational for the aspiring hunter, but I fear for the herd (and other significant ones) that his thoughts will fall on deaf ears. Hope the GAC achieves what we all want it to...

I am all for herds of special interest being formed but having a politically and self interested group like the GAC as it is NOW do anything, is scarier than open slather WARO to me.

A council that will actually benifit everyone's interest should be formed of everyday hunters and user groups that are suitable, not by people already gunning for political status with certain agendas.

DOC imo, are also the largest hurdle for any such group. They have agendas and people in high up places that will never change their mindset.

Just what they tell kids in schools is friggen scary. I have already had a few small arguments with my daughter because of what she has brought home from school.

They imo have gone from being custodians to dictators. They have far too much power and have the means to squash anything that they think will threaten that.
Apart from a few I have met the majority of their employees are single minded. We all know this and I am positive they hire their staff accordingly.

I hope I am wrong but I also think red deer are doomed never to be of special interest. Their trophy potential range is too large.
And yet in my case especially, a trophy red deer is the hardest of the lot to find.

There are ways to limit the impact on trophy red deer by WARO but it requires everyone involved to be strictly on board.

I have been part of a WARO group that went out of its way not too shoot certain animals in certain areas. It actually worked out quite well while we were the only ones doing it. It also did not cost anything as the numbers were pretty good.

Then Doc issued more concessions due to demand and it went to shit along with the attitude.

The other thing that gets little attention is overseas hunters having a huge impact.

It is way too easy for them to get in and hunt here. Some really cut loose shooting everything in sight when they get the chance as they're in all examples I can think of restricted where they are from.

And unfortunately the mainland whitetail and the Wapiti herds receive a lot of their attention.

Some of their attitudes and ethics would horrify the majority if found out.

As it is now, I would lock up the Wapiti and whitetail herds for a minimum of 5 years.
They imo are at the top of any special interest at the moment.
Hearing of parties hunting the Wapiti in January because February is now closed in certain areas is sickening and just fucking selfish.

And let's face it. There hasn't been many if any real decent heads, come out of the Wapiti herd for years. There will always be a red deer shot somewhere else that will out score any wap shot recently. To me that isint right.

Apart from filling my freezer sensibly, I am strictly a trophy hunter and will be for the rest of my life. And I have been for the majority of my time involved in waro. I also know a few operators with the same ideals.

Personally I am not into shooting older character heads or scrubby deer.
Any old deer with size can still pass on their worth imo so I am happy leave them.
And at my age busting a gut to carry meat and a head has to be worth it.

Not everyone thinks like me and that is all good. But for any common ground to be found it will require the attitudes of everyone, not just waro operators changing.
Recreational hunters are the majority that use our backcountry but imo, they in some cases be the most pig headed and are no different to the likes of Doc or forest and bird regarding their mindsets and ideals.

Imo, an operator that shoots a known trophy is just a selfish cock. Likewise for the meat hunter excuse when shot in velvet.
There is always another more suitable animal around the corner. But unfortunately not everyone trusts themselves to find it. They just have to bring something home.

Personally I am happy with where we are at now in NZ regarding hunting opportunities. It could be a lot better again but I don't see it happening anytime soon. It needs a collective understanding and effort. But yeah, it can be done.

GD could you please pm me the name of the operator that has been winding you up?











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Originally Posted by R93

Hearing of parties hunting the Wapiti in January because February is now closed in certain areas is sickening and just fucking selfish.

I agreed with everything you wrote in your post except this line. Part of chasing wapiti in fiordland is the majesty of the place, the flora and the fauna and the experience of just being there. Should a hunter wait years and years on the hope that they get a ballot?...that might never happen for them. Would you deny a hunter the experience of hunting in firodland? I don't believe any kiwi hunter can deny another that chance.

So a hunter hunts in there in January and shoots a deer that to him means the world, that he has climbed for, bled for and exhausted himself for. Now if he leaves that animal and someone else shoots it in April then that animal becomes that other hunters prize. But why is one hunters memories more important than another's? Why should they be denied the fiordland experience on the hope that they may one day have their name pulled out of the hat? I also think it is selfish for hunters in the ballot to think that all deer in the park are to be left for them and them alone. That's not how hunting works.

Now I don't shoot pregnant hinds, that's just me. And I have been in a position where I have seen some and left them only to hear a shot half an hour later. When I have checked it out I've found someone has shot one of the hinds that I let go. I didn't get upset as I know I have my own set of hunting ethics and I can't force those onto others. For all I know his family could be struggling and that hind will feed his family for a while.

I am in agreement with you about locking up these special herds for a few years, but I know it will never happen.

Originally Posted by Kudu

I agreed with everything you wrote in your post except this line. Part of chasing wapiti in fiordland is the majesty of the place, the flora and the fauna and the experience of just being there. Should a hunter wait years and years on the hope that they get a ballot?...that might never happen for them. Would you deny a hunter the experience of hunting in firodland? I don't believe any kiwi hunter can deny another that chance.

So a hunter hunts in there in January and shoots a deer that to him means the world, that he has climbed for, bled for and exhausted himself for. Now if he leaves that animal and someone else shoots it in April then that animal becomes that other hunters prize. But why is one hunters memories more important than another's? Why should they be denied the fiordland experience on the hope that they may one day have their name pulled out of the hat? I also think it is selfish for hunters in the ballot to think that all deer in the park are to be left for them and them alone. That's not how hunting works.

Now I don't shoot pregnant hinds, that's just me. And I have been in a position where I have seen some and left them only to hear a shot half an hour later. When I have checked it out I've found someone has shot one of the hinds that I let go. I didn't get upset as I know I have my own set of hunting ethics and I can't force those onto others. For all I know his family could be struggling and that hind will feed his family for a while.

I am in agreement with you about locking up these special herds for a few years, but I know it will never happen.

No I wouldn't want to deprive anyone of anything. And you don't have to sell me on the reasons to be in there.
However wapiti are not the only game animal in fiordland.

And I was talking about tourist hunters to be fair.
What is the point of shooting a bull in January honestly?
You don't think going into the ballot areas that time of year to target wapiti just to beat the guys that balloted isint a bit selfish?
Isint that defeating what the foundation is all about?

I have never got a ballot. Gave up years ago. I will never likely hunt NZ wapiti as the true trophy potential at this time imo is poor. Despite the hard work groups put into it.
Locking it up or a release might be the only way to get it to its potential.





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@Kudu The reason the Wapiti herd is coming back is solely because of all the work the fwf have done, this is all funded by the hunters who apply/get ballots thru there donations. So it’s not unreasonable to let the successful ballot hunters have first crack at it seeing as they have funded the fwf work, those hunters who are going in early aren’t financial contributing to the herd, are shooting bulls before they even have a chance to bred in the bugle, there is nothing stopping them from going in after the ballot to wherever they want to chase them.

There is a thread over at the other pub about how a bunch of young bulls have been shot in Jan by clients of guides! The fwf haven’t done all this work so a few guides can make a $

Originally Posted by outdoorlad

@Kudu The reason the Wapiti herd is coming back is solely because of all the work the fwf have done, this is all funded by the hunters who apply/get ballots thru there donations. So it’s not unreasonable to let the successful ballot hunters have first crack at it seeing as they have funded the fwf work, those hunters who are going in early aren’t financial contributing to the herd, are shooting bulls before they even have a chance to bred in the bugle, there is nothing stopping them from going in after the ballot to wherever they want to chase them.

There is a thread over at the other pub about how a bunch of young bulls have been shot in Jan by clients of guides! The fwf haven’t done all this work so a few guides can make a $

Took you a couple of sentences in what took me a couple paragraphs to get the points I was trying to get across

Maybe another thread should be started. As good as this has been, it is gone off track for the OP

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Originally Posted by R93

As good as this has been, it is gone off track for the OP

You are right...I'll get it back on track.

Awesome episode Greg. Thanks for showing this north islander more of those awesome alps and for spreading decent hunting values, that I hope are picked up by the next generation of hunters.

Originally Posted by outdoorlad

@Kudu The reason the Wapiti herd is coming back is solely because of all the work the fwf have done, this is all funded by the hunters who apply/get ballots thru there donations. So it’s not unreasonable to let the successful ballot hunters have first crack at it seeing as they have funded the fwf work, those hunters who are going in early aren’t financial contributing to the herd, are shooting bulls before they even have a chance to bred in the bugle, there is nothing stopping them from going in after the ballot to wherever they want to chase them.

There is a thread over at the other pub about how a bunch of young bulls have been shot in Jan by clients of guides! The fwf haven’t done all this work so a few guides can make a $

I totally agree with you @outdoorlad . I am 150% behind the FWF. And I am one of the ones who wait patiently for my name to be drawn out of the hat. The point I was getting across is that there are as many different view points as there are hunters. If I win a block and heard that there were hunters in there in the January prior, I would be upset, but also understanding that there may be circumstances that I do not know that led them to that.

I don't know how to link the thread but have started another under Hunting topic to continue this very civil discussion if needed.

That is unless Gred D is happy for this thread to be used.

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Well I just want to say that two part story is one of the very best hunting vids I’ve ever seen. Hats off to you Greg and Willie. You showed it just as it was (apart from the Federal Fat Max lol) triumphs and disasters. You made it a human story. The loss of that stag was the making of the show so you’ve got that to console yourself with anyway. Man what a terrific piece of TV making

Oh Hell hats off to Emile too. Fantastic cameraman and he can shoot too!!