Thread: the OFF TOPIC to Stags shot 21 (discussion of wild animal management)

My view is each to their own, theirs plenty of deer and they need knocking back yes the freezer gets filled with meat animals year round I personally haven't shot a stag for 5 years having bagged a beauty and thinking unless it's better I wont but now it's being 5 years and it took 15 years in the first place I'm wanting that seal the deal roar hunt iv probably only got 15 roars left but by no means will I shoot a pup of potential. every wants the 300+ taking some of the lesser potential young ones is not a bad thing doesn't mean it couldnt e a trophy for some one but its average blood gone . In my opinion

Someone should put up the youtube link from the Sika Foundation game management our why. Too stupid to do it myself, but all hunters should watch it and think about it.

Originally Posted by chindit

Someone should put up the youtube link from the Sika Foundation game management our why. Too stupid to do it myself, but all hunters should watch it and think about it.

i did make a thread about it an ask why it only had 60 or so little views.. perhaps it was 700, but it needed to be seen by every hunter in nz and aus for that matter

Originally Posted by chindit

Someone should put up the youtube link from the Sika Foundation game management our why. Too stupid to do it myself, but all hunters should watch it and think about it.

Yea that's epic il try dig it out

Originally Posted by Kelton

Yea that's epic il try dig it out

https://sikafoundation.co.nz/hind-sight/

I for one , and have also drilled into the kids , shoot only what I can recover.... regardless of the target species , from goats to deer. In fact the only thing we shoot without abiding that rule is possums , but even then we still take the meat whenever possible for the dog . Same with rabbits , always take the meat .
I don't believe in knocking over all and sundry just because I can , including goats .
All my hunting is on foot so , unless it's goats which I can generally manage two animals worth of meat , it's one animal only .
There was a private block we used to hunt goat and fallow that changed hands and we were still allowed to hunt during the changeover . The new owner wanted to plant trees so instigated a goat cull .
I went in after with my family and the carnage was truly heartbreaking . Rotting carcasses all over the hill , hundreds of them .
Both the kids and Mrs FTX wept at the sight .
I understand why it was done but I couldn't do that job .
All that life wasted and so much meat left to rot on the hill . Call me a pussy but that goes against everything I believe in . I was also pleased my kids had that reaction as it showed that they have taken to heart all I have tried to instill in them about respecting life and compassion and why I hunt by my rules .

Originally Posted by Ftx325

I for one , and have also drilled into the kids , shoot only what I can recover.... regardless of the target species , from goats to deer. In fact the only thing we shoot without abiding that rule is possums , but even then we still take the meat whenever possible for the dog . Same with rabbits , always take the meat .
I don't believe in knocking over all and sundry just because I can , including goats .
All my hunting is on foot so , unless it's goats which I can generally manage two animals worth of meat , it's one animal only .
There was a private block we used to hunt goat and fallow that changed hands and we were still allowed to hunt during the changeover . The new owner wanted to plant trees so instigated a goat cull .
I went in after with my family and the carnage was truly heartbreaking . Rotting carcasses all over the hill , hundreds of them .
Both the kids and Mrs FTX wept at the sight .
I understand why it was done but I couldn't do that job .
All that life wasted and so much meat left to rot on the hill . Call me a pussy but that goes against everything I believe in . I was also pleased my kids had that reaction as it showed that they have taken to heart all I have tried to instill in them about respecting life and compassion and why I hunt by my rules .

I like the idea but realistically it's we do in on foot to our own terms or helicopters do it. Also are you saying recover everything off the animal because I know I couldn't possibly carry a full stag that probably bones out damn near my total body weight if not more from some of the places I hunt. I see this point and it took me a bit to get over it myself. But it's either on a trip our and we have already shot an animals and we can fit another small amount of meat why not do some population control and shoot another hind and take whatever else we can fit even if just the backsteaks.

My moral compromise I made for myself was I take whatever I can carry without to high a risk of injury. If hunting the likes of the rakaia etc that's likely most of the animal if i can get it to the main river in a few trips and can stockpile it to get a 4wd to it. But when on the divide etc with a heap of up and down and 20-30kms to walk out solo Its usually a whole cham or most of a Tahr or most of a hind. In the case of a stag if it's mature reality is it's back steaks and maybe boned out hind quarters and heart if it's good.

Originally Posted by Stocky

I like the idea but realistically it's we do in on foot to our own terms or helicopters do it. Also are you saying recover everything off the animal because I know I couldn't possibly carry a full stag that probably bones out damn near my total body weight if not more from some of the places I hunt. I see this point and it took me a bit to get over it myself. But it's either on a trip our and we have already shot an animals and we can fit another small amount of meat why not do some population control and shoot another hind and take whatever else we can fit even if just the backsteaks.

My moral compromise I made for myself was I take whatever I can carry without to high a risk of injury. If hunting the likes of the rakaia etc that's likely most of the animal if i can get it to the main river in a few trips and can stockpile it to get a 4wd to it. But when on the divide etc with a heap of up and down and 20-30kms to walk out solo Its usually a whole cham or most of a Tahr or most of a hind. In the case of a stag if it's mature reality is it's back steaks and maybe boned out hind quarters and heart if it's good.

hey no problem with that . We all have our limits as to how much we can carry and I would not expect mere mortals as ourselves to carry out an entire stag . Obviously size and weight limits apply , as I mentioned with goats I can generally handle 2 animals but that would be my limit , maybe 3 small ones . I wouldn't shoot any more just because i could . I guess what I am trying to say is I personally would shoot one and take as much from that one animal as I could rather than bowl five and just take back steaks from each....

Originally Posted by Ftx325

I for one , and have also drilled into the kids , shoot only what I can recover.... regardless of the target species , from goats to deer. In fact the only thing we shoot without abiding that rule is possums , but even then we still take the meat whenever possible for the dog . Same with rabbits , always take the meat .
I don't believe in knocking over all and sundry just because I can , including goats .
All my hunting is on foot so , unless it's goats which I can generally manage two animals worth of meat , it's one animal only .
There was a private block we used to hunt goat and fallow that changed hands and we were still allowed to hunt during the changeover . The new owner wanted to plant trees so instigated a goat cull .
I went in after with my family and the carnage was truly heartbreaking . Rotting carcasses all over the hill , hundreds of them .
Both the kids and Mrs FTX wept at the sight .
I understand why it was done but I couldn't do that job .
All that life wasted and so much meat left to rot on the hill . Call me a pussy but that goes against everything I believe in . I was also pleased my kids had that reaction as it showed that they have taken to heart all I have tried to instill in them about respecting life and compassion and why I hunt by my rules .

If the confiscation of semi autos achieve anything, I hope that discriminate and proper hunting techniques emerge from it. Spray and pray type shooting is never okay when shooting animals, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Kelton

https://sikafoundation.co.nz/hind-sight/

That's a really excellent insight into the deer population demographics and herd structure.
Very good guide for hunters and what we should be striving to achieve.
The question is when is the best time to be shooting hinds?

Originally Posted by yogi

That's a really excellent insight into the deer population demographics and herd structure.
Very good guide for hunters and what we should be striving to achieve.
The question is when is the best time to be shooting hinds?

I think that's a point where we should discuss points but it's completely up to individual ethics and potential effect on the veiw of hunters.

For population control its should be all year round.

For stopping fawns suffering it should be from weaning to fawns being dropped.

For those morally against shooting pregnant deer maybe just the winter and early spring. Although technically deer are pregnant 75% of the year and have fawns at foot the other 25%.

Its finding an acceptable balance of all veiw points. Which is why discussion is important as I may/surely have missed other points of veiw.

I'll preface all following comments.

Just because I have a different view doesn't mean I hold anything against anyone. I grew up on a farm and practical background mostly in NZ but have lots of family in the USA and see the rep the USA gets when realistically the stereotype is a very small portion unrelated to places like rural Montana where I was born. I then went to University where hardly anyone has any practical background or has actually done any work and found it to be a left leaning brainwashing center where opinion is often portrayed as fact. I did well but hated it and felt like I couldn't express view points differing from the uniformed norm because its a quick way to get ostracized. Because of this I dislike opinion stated as fact especially when used as a good sounding excuse not as a genuine reason i.e. pretty much 95% of the latest proposed firearms laws.

I make a point of trying to see everyone's viewpoints and not to single people out. I also enjoy discussion on hard topics as I think this constructive discussion (that I believe has more chance of changing opinions and or even just moderating them) is missing from 95% of society and I like to think hunters on a whole are better than the general population (which may not be true but id like to think it). I try to give credit where its due and am not a believer of writing of individuals as its not productive so I'll express concerns where I see them and give props when I see things I appreciate/agree with.

So if I question you I'm not doing anything but trying to open a dialogue and have a discussion. As with anyone I'm not perfect and sometimes the questions come across as pointed. I do often change my viewpoint on issues based on other giving reasoning I haven't personally thought of.

The reason I think this discussion is important is that so many people nowadays dont say anything because discussing these things can be a little tense (but they dont have to be its just a discussion after all) they just ignore it then you end up with things like that Cardi B Performance at the Grammys being considered empowering women or the school where all the boys where forced to apologize to there females counterparts for rape and sexual assault.

Originally Posted by Kelton

My view is each to their own, theirs plenty of deer and they need knocking back yes the freezer gets filled with meat animals year round I personally haven't shot a stag for 5 years having bagged a beauty and thinking unless it's better I wont but now it's being 5 years and it took 15 years in the first place I'm wanting that seal the deal roar hunt iv probably only got 15 roars left but by no means will I shoot a pup of potential. every wants the 300+ taking some of the lesser potential young ones is not a bad thing doesn't mean it couldnt e a trophy for some one but its average blood gone . In my opinion

I agree for the most part. We can all make our own decisions. But its definitely hard for the guy that decides to leave young stags in an area he hunts on a regular basis to grow to see someone come and shot a bunch of young stags in that area. Yes you can make your own decisions but one selfish choice can literally undo years of restraint by another (surely this is understandably hard to swallow). I dont think 80% of hunters can assess a good stag before its 4 or 5 years of age (i would probably class myself as an average judge in that i have good stock sense for age from farming and i have tried to research it but lacking hard data from actually killing stags id definitely not call myself a good judge) at which point a lot would shoot it as its the oldest stags they have actually laid eyes on. I dont think unless you know what your doing or there's obvious issue ie a clearly very old stag thats shit or one with antler deformities that you should cull animals because they are "poor genetics".

I work on the same logic as you with on public land i will only shoot a clearly mature animal regardless of trophy quality ie a large 8 or a switch or a stag that is a PB or better than what I have already taken which now means a mid 30s length 12 (not a mature animal but one I am proud of and raised the bar in what I will target. On private land I believe do what you want or the landowner wants.

Stags dont help population control so I make a point of shooting hinds whenever possible. This doesn't always work out because I'm am trying to find a mature red stag so dont want to disturb areas but between October to January I usually shot 4 or 5 hinds mixed in with my cham and tahr hunting. I could and probably should shoot more hinds even if I cant take all the meat due to being early in the trip during summer and hunting primarily solo. I do try to work on this as i see it as hunters duties to try control population or just accept that we will see a Tahr cull 2.0 occur.