Thread: Potentially more DOC land to be closed off for hunting

Originally Posted by SpeightsDrinker

It’s not about being a tree hugging greenie - which also shows your lack of respect for the land we all currently have access too.

It’s about losing that land access, but your also right - I don’t see it being okay to strip away a janitor and destroy the fauna and flora away so all the profits were put into the pockets of the mining corporation AND NOT put into the tax payers pocket.

The government won’t mine it and keep the profit made to help the tax burden in NZ. Nope it will go to the pockets of the already rich who can afford the necessary bribe of the politician who will grant them the public land to mine - where they’ll kill everything and pay local workers as little as they can get away with (in fact they may bring overseas workers in) and then leave the clean up to the tax payers to foot.

I don’t know about you but I’m tired of buisness making everything worse for the average kiwi.

Fontera won’t even allow them selves to take less profit on the 5% of the dairy products that stay in NZ - they won’t even sell for less than market price - let alone cost price. For 5%!

To think that a mining company will do us any favours is something you should take into consideration before calling me a tree hugging greenie.

The price of butter, eh. This post is more about ideology than it is about access. That seems the root of the concern. Political really.

Originally Posted by SpeightsDrinker

It’s not about being a tree hugging greenie - which also shows your lack of respect for the land we all currently have access too.

It’s about losing that land access, but your also right - I don’t see it being okay to strip away a janitor and destroy the fauna and flora away so all the profits were put into the pockets of the mining corporation AND NOT put into the tax payers pocket.

The government won’t mine it and keep the profit made to help the tax burden in NZ. Nope it will go to the pockets of the already rich who can afford the necessary bribe of the politician who will grant them the public land to mine - where they’ll kill everything and pay local workers as little as they can get away with (in fact they may bring overseas workers in) and then leave the clean up to the tax payers to foot.

I don’t know about you but I’m tired of buisness making everything worse for the average kiwi.

Fontera won’t even allow them selves to take less profit on the 5% of the dairy products that stay in NZ - they won’t even sell for less than market price - let alone cost price. For 5%!

To think that a mining company will do us any favours is something you should take into consideration before calling me a tree hugging greenie.

I'm looking forward to you helping me understand how business makes everything worse for the average Kiwi. All those jobs created, tax revenue etc must be a real burden on society.

Also looking forward to understanding why a privately owned business should sell their products for less than market price.

As far as the public land access goes, I'd rather live in a wealthy country with a higher standard of living for all because we utilise our natural resources. There will still be plenty of hunting access.

This is just typical right wing trickle down economics

Whats good for business is good for the economy

I prefer the view that that the economy exists for people and not that people exist for the economy.

More and more access to Conservation areas is now restricted by adjoining private land owners who directly or indirectly benefit from the Conservation Estate.
The change has been gradual but the cumulative effect over my hunting career has become significant.
The proposed changes to easier business access to the conservation estate will be yet another step along this seemingly relentless degradation of access.

As for the potential for increase opportunities from these businesses having access ?
Your dreaming if you think there will be an up side for other recreational users !

Just remember that the DoC Conservation Estate is NOT a game farm. DoCs objective is 100% different to the recreational hunters

Originally Posted by SpeightsDrinker

It’s not about being a tree hugging greenie - which also shows your lack of respect for the land we all currently have access too.

It’s about losing that land access, but your also right - I don’t see it being okay to strip away a janitor and destroy the fauna and flora away so all the profits were put into the pockets of the mining corporation AND NOT put into the tax payers pocket.

The government won’t mine it and keep the profit made to help the tax burden in NZ. Nope it will go to the pockets of the already rich who can afford the necessary bribe of the politician who will grant them the public land to mine - where they’ll kill everything and pay local workers as little as they can get away with (in fact they may bring overseas workers in) and then leave the clean up to the tax payers to foot.

I don’t know about you but I’m tired of buisness making everything worse for the average kiwi.

Fontera won’t even allow them selves to take less profit on the 5% of the dairy products that stay in NZ - they won’t even sell for less than market price - let alone cost price. For 5%!

To think that a mining company will do us any favours is something you should take into consideration before calling me a tree hugging greenie.

Well if THIS isn't a political post.....I do not know what is. I look forward to seeing you up on podium at next Fonterra share holders meeting putting to a vote...let's sell our products cheaply here instead of for profit overseas...all in favour???? You might need to stop drinking beer with blue on label and try one that's more orange..... I do think it's a shocking thing we can buy milk imported from Ozzie cheaper than locally produced. But it is what it is.im not loosing sleep over it.

The word conservation is an adjective but in the case of DoC' title also a noun. The term is a broad one but perhaps the actioning of it within beauracracies and politics and fiscal influences is subject to
bias. It would be a good thing for NZ to conserve anf mine our valuable minerals for our own national treasury and to generate thermal power ourselves to provide non profit energy to NZ domestic
and NZ owned industries.
The historical hysterical narrow protectionist narrow view bias of the ultra dysfunctional mess called DoC actually should be disestablished asap and the
actual pragmatic balanced interpretation
of "conservation"applied to the design and
implementation of compact specialist
new goverment agrncies IMO.
Such an action would replace biased bureacracy infected with entrenched radical biases and sop's with practicality and honesty and expertise most probably also eliminating waste of public funds, pr bs and enabling sensible utilisation of natural resources.

Originally Posted by A-Bolt

I'm looking forward to you helping me understand how business makes everything worse for the average Kiwi. All those jobs created, tax revenue etc must be a real burden on society.

Also looking forward to understanding why a privately owned business should sell their products for less than market price..

Both can be true. Business can provide for the economy and create jobs. While making things worse.

Look at the supermarket duopoly- one of the biggest employers in nz. All the tax revenue and jobs added - oh and making excessive profit at the detriment of the same people they employ with constant price increases. Making it worse for the average kiwi.

This is getting overly political I agree.

I think Akaroa1 put it in a way that more accurately describes why I lm worked up about this.

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

If you think five million hectares is going to be ripped up and turned to desert due to mining, you are dreaming.
This will just give the option to apply for consent to mine on public land. It will still need to go through the consent process.
A sensible decision.
Mining in some areas may in fact give hunters some benifits.
Access roads being one.

This is what I read as well. In the end the piper must be paid. We are faced with +200 billion dollars worth of debt and rising,so who and how is that going to be paid? We certainly cannot resolve that with an inward facing economy, we need export dollars. And, thinking positively, there will be so many eyes on any mining operations, so many to appease, that it’ll have to be done right.

If I got into this thread Id get banned..so off I go to talk about rifles and calibrs and reloading and hunting gear and stuff I collect and GCs I know, and pistol shooting....not to mention reading all the excellent stuff from folk who know and do shit Id love to know and do but dont......life is too short.

Would those that are pretending to be opposed to mining please stop using any devices that rely on mined ressources?

that includes your phones, computers and cars. thank you.

I understand what @Tahr and @akaroa1 are saying. If there are two things missing from the whole discussion is retaining ownership and access to publicly owned land and any mention of the monetary benefit to New Zealand and its taxpayers as a whole. Absolutely no mention of anything like a sovereign wealth fund, to take Norway vs Australia/UK/Venezuela and a few others as examples.
The potential for it to all go wrong is high. We’ve already lost vast tracts of public land to self interest groups not to mention the whole Queens chain debacle. Dare I include Pike River in this as well.
The fact that this country is teetering on a financial and social brink is likely to cloud a lot of good judgment.

Mate, it’s a poor argument to say “if you have phone you should want mining”

My post didn’t even start with mining is bad -
I started with - we could lose hunting access. That’s still where I stand, but other people brought it up. But while I’m at it - the same people who want to open 5mil hectares of public conservation land for business interests are the same people who made it legal to kill native birds including kiwi if they are a threat to economic activity. Doesn’t any of this worry you guys?
Or is it “yay more money for a few well connected people!”

Well actually,with tinfoil hat removed.... We have vast amounts of some of the world's best coal here.... Yet due to previous woke signalling PC bullshit.we aren't allowed to get it out of ground and use it...even domestically...yet we can import dirty Indonesian coal. That is shooting ourselves in both feet and kicking ourselves in balls with buttstock while doing it.

To allow some more commercial interests to operate on publically owned land,also opens door to charge them outrageously for the privilege of doing so....good bad or otherwise. This country is unfortunately in a lot of debt. The lockdown fiasco didn't help that ,but it is what it is....can't go back and change the past.... Some of us are old enough to remember Rogernomics....a big attempt by nzgovt to reduce debt. Very tough few years indeed. We now in bad place again,maybe this whole idea is because of that??? Good bad or ugly we NEED to keep open mind to possible way out of the crap. Constantly read our health system is poked/ screwed/ fooked.... Well here's a news flash for you.... Can't buy our way out of that mess if the kitty is empty. Not enough wage earners / businesses paying tax to suddenly fill it up again. We baling as fast as we can bro,but man the boat has some severe leaks.

Originally Posted by akaroa1

This is just typical right wing trickle down economics

Whats good for business is good for the economy

I prefer the view that that the economy exists for people and not that people exist for the economy.

More and more access to Conservation areas is now restricted by adjoining private land owners who directly or indirectly benefit from the Conservation Estate.
The change has been gradual but the cumulative effect over my hunting career has become significant.
The proposed changes to easier business access to the conservation estate will be yet another step along this seemingly relentless degradation of access.

As for the potential for increase opportunities from these businesses having access ?
Your dreaming if you think there will be an up side for other recreational users !

Just remember that the DoC Conservation Estate is NOT a game farm. DoCs objective is 100% different to the recreational hunters

Yeah, Trickle down economics, AKA The Reagan era, has been proven to so not work. I would LOVE someone to show me where a commercial activity in OUR public wildlands has assisted us, the public to enjoy greater benefits. That's other than the tax take on the activity being undertaken, as there are so many hands that grab at that tax take before we ever see positive results for us, the public that in theory, all own that land.

Originally Posted by SpeightsDrinker

It’s not about being a tree hugging greenie - which also shows your lack of respect for the land we all currently have access too.

It’s about losing that land access, but your also right - I don’t see it being okay to strip away a janitor and destroy the fauna and flora away so all the profits were put into the pockets of the mining corporation AND NOT put into the tax payers pocket.

The government won’t mine it and keep the profit made to help the tax burden in NZ. Nope it will go to the pockets of the already rich who can afford the necessary bribe of the politician who will grant them the public land to mine - where they’ll kill everything and pay local workers as little as they can get away with (in fact they may bring overseas workers in) and then leave the clean up to the tax payers to foot.

I don’t know about you but I’m tired of buisness making everything worse for the average kiwi.

Fontera won’t even allow them selves to take less profit on the 5% of the dairy products that stay in NZ - they won’t even sell for less than market price - let alone cost price. For 5%!

To think that a mining company will do us any favours is something you should take into consideration before calling me a tree hugging greenie.

Do not assume I have no respect for our environment, or anything for that matter.