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I am looking to get a tikka and cut the barrel to around 17 inches and add a suppressor. I am in between 6.5prc and .270win and plan on shooting 130-140gr bullets in either. Max hunting distance probably won’t be over 400 yards. I currently shoot .270 so I have components already but I cannot find much data on short .270s. Does anyone have velocities to share out of either cartridge in a short barrel?
I would stick with the .270 @Ryan songhurst had a short barrel .270 and maybe able to help you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akj
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Please don't. Not with either of those.
Just get a 308.
Agreed. Either a .308 or 7mm/08 are much better suited to a short barrel rig. The PRC or .270 will just burn a whole lot of extra powder for very little gain. Short barrel rifle are best when matched with a small case capacity in relation to the bore size.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pommy
I would go with the 6.5prc, short fat cases always do better in a shorter barrel than long skinny cases
Just look at 280 vs 284win
Ive had 20" .270 and 6.5PRC.
270 met expectations, 6.5prc fell short.
Too much fussing around with the PRC - dies, cases etc and performance wasn't startling.
The .270 was so easy to set up and get going. It's quite an efficient cartridge. Mate had an 18" Ruger Lightweight and that was pretty good too. The Duleys use a short barell'd .270 (20" maybe) and I respect their judgement.
308
Answering the question you wish he had asked and not the question he actually asked. Classic. :):)Quote:
Originally Posted by STC
your nurse should give you your meds and bring you back to bed sir.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pommy
I’m open to suggestions. Care to elaborate?
If you have all the components as well as familiarity (and/or nostalgia), then they are definitely good reasons to stick with 270. Change up the powder as necessary for shorter time in barrel. But, if the question is relative performance, the 270 cartridge was developed 100 years ago. Are there any recently developed cartridges that look anything like it? It is basically superseded technology.
Do you have data to support this? Not trying to argue. I just haven’t seen much data, but the little I have seen seems promising to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by zeropak
What kind of velocities did you see out of the .270?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
try to crunch a few numbers in quickload if you want proof.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akj
you can shorten any caliber, some are just more suitable to do it than others.
Hah. For a person who doesn’t know me you are scarily close to the truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by STC
2990 with 130 grn ballistic tips. W760 powder. Wasn’t maximum. Killed well. Bit messy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akj
You could use any of half a dozen cases and there will be nothing in it except marginal ballistic differences.
.270 cases and components are easy to get.
Whoops, here comes matron, gotta go….
the poor old .270 get slammed with all manner of accusations...and just like any other cartridge its all about matching the load to the game...
the above comment from Tahr is classic (and I respect this man and his opinions immensely) 130 killed well but was messy....well that just means it killed really well and did what you asked it to do..really well .a change in projectile will have changed terminal effect...
if the 130s being used were..messy/too explody/doing too much damage......changing to something harder would change that..slowing it down would do that,changing point of aim would do that..going heavier/slower would do that,using mono would definately do that and could drop weight of projectile too...but thats almost too much of step in other direction.
as for comment by @bang re it being out dated technology because no one is making anything similar.......well maybe the ylearned from the 25/06 and 6.5/06 and to some extend the .280 the yare all good but the .270 does same job with less fluffing around..re inventing the wheel type deal.
or as that wise old Chinese reloader once said "hif it works,dont faark around wif it"
the new 145grn hornady loads have given .270 users a capable longer range load
the spc cartridges gave lighter projectiles and if want to spend coin for custom jobbie,faster twist barrels.
the old gal has ALWAYS been kneecapped with poorer projectile choice compared to calibres either side of it..but if a fella had spent the little bit extra coin and bought nosler projectiles he would never have been far behind..hornady bog std cup n core are very accurate and kill well too... matching weight to what you want to achieve works wonders..I found the 140s much less explody than the 130s,the boat tail makes them doddle to reload.
Shot a 270 win Sako Bavarian Stutzen which is 20 inches and it was a cannon and a half. Did not suit me, 308 is better suited but end of the day your choice.
Why 17 inches?
suppressors have been biggest gamechanger for the cartridge....less boot and no big boom.
as many on here have said just get a 308 and get out hunting you wont go wrong trust me I have hunted for 50 years plus - if you are determined to cut a rifle down then .270 but you have just fucked up a really really great cartridgeQuote:
Originally Posted by Akj
My suggestion is to get a 308.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akj
You're wanting a cartridge that's proven it does well from 16-18" barrels for hunting out to 400m... That's called a 308... Why blow 55-60gr powder down a barrel for an academically small increase in performance and a shit load more noise and less barrel life?
Fwiw, I doubt there is any meaningful difference in efficiency between 270 Win and 6.5 PRC. Tahr gets 2990 with a 130 from a 20" 270. I can get ~3200 with a 130 from a 26" PRC so shortened it would be similar.
To keep the overall length down with a suppressorQuote:
Originally Posted by Sauer270
just spotted your location....... maybe you want the power of bigger cartridge but portability of slightly shorter barrel???Quote:
Originally Posted by Akj
the extra 4" will be an extra 30-50fps per inch so ???120-200fps total more..or less depending if cut or leave long....
3-4 seasons back the NZHunter crew ran factory rifles and cartridges (sponser request type deal) and were using stock std tikka .270 as bush rifle as the numbers stacked up better for it..much to Gregs surprise and I suspect discust LOL...
going .308 will allow you to up projectile weight to 180grn class..but if your lucky you can actually find 160-170 and 180 grn in .277 anyway...and the 150grn partition is plurry good anyway..and they make a 160grn so wouldnt be giving away much to a fatter bore.
the obvious answer is .30/06 for more power and smack down....
@Akj
The fellas on this site, and at least one of the sites you’ve posted the same question on, are mostly telling you to do the same thing.
Use a .308 Win.
However...
If you model 6.5 PRC vs .270 Win vs .308 Win, which I recommend you do, you'll see that in reality there's 2/10ths of bugger all between them with a 18" barrel.
At all ranges, you're looking at a terminal energy delta of ~5% more or less, depending on bullet and how fast you're prepared to push it.
The .270 and 6.5 will fly a bit flatter, but not by a great deal. A couple of inches difference at 300m isn't a gamechanger one way or the other. The sectional density is roughly the same give or take. They all burn pretty much the same percentage of the powder charge (mid to high 90s).
The only tangible variables that makes the .308 Win the more logical choice in my mind are (a) less muzzle blast and (b) bigger diameter hole. But at the end of the day, it's what you do the moment you pull the trigger that's really gonna make a difference.
So in many ways your question will succeed in one aspect - making a whole bunch of guys around the world spin their wheels arguing over bugger all difference. But it will fail to deliver a definitive answer.
My answer is: If you already have a .270 and all the associated gear, then stick with it. Add some illogic to the equation ("I want a [....] for no real reason other than just wanting one"), then get it and be happy. You certainly won't go wrong with a .308 Win - it's the most proven short barreled medium to large game hunting rifle ever, period.
(I shoot a shed load of red deer every year with a 18" .308 Winchester and couldn't be happier. I'd never own a .270 Winchester even if Ryan gave me one for Christmas, but that's just me.)
I think what made me look past the 308 is that most bullets are heavier than what is typically found in 270 or 6.5prc. I wanted to try to keep it relatively flat shooting even with the reduced velocity. I’ve have no problem killing moose and smaller with 150gr bullets. Gaining the speed back from a shorter barrel with 130-140gr bullets was my thought. The other aspect is the increased affect of wind drift in the light .30 cal bullets. However at the ranges I’ll actually be shooting I’m probably overthinking it. Maybe I need to give 308 a second look…Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyblown
I will add you should consult your suppressor manufacturer as well for their input, they aren't a dime a dozen or available overnight in your location, unlike here
Short barrels & bigger cartridges aren't a match made in heaven
I have an 18 inch PRC its shooting factory 143s shade over 2750.very accurate.
In Theory the 6.5 prc will lose the most from shortening as it is the most overbore.
Pushing 60 odd grains of powder down a 6.5 mm bore vs a 7mm one.
However there is great projectile choice in 6.5mm designed for the lower velocity creedmore and grendle chamberings.
Or just get a 308.
And very slow that slower than a .260 or Creedmoor which are both better options for shorter barrels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yesmate
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I have a .270 and it kills things. Ruger ultralight 20" with DPT overbarrel suppressor. It always worked fine at 20" before I put the suppressor on and I'm sure cutting a couple of inches off and adding the suppressor length wouldn't change it too much from the original speeds. I understand the suppressor is different to barrel length but it must make bullet faster than not having the suppressor on at all.
Big 270 fan here. But whenever I see people cutting them down I really ask why? go with a short action 7m08 or something and make the most of a short lite rifle. 270 really comes into its own with a longer barrel where it puts pressure on the magnums.
you will need a gas mask for a 17-inch barrelled 270:wtfsmilie:
what's a creed or 260 shooting factory at with an 18?Quote:
Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP
Some rough MAXIMUM numbers from GRT both in a 17" barrel, and using 2209 for a full burn:
270win 145gr eldx ~4gr more powder ~2740fps.
6.5 PRC 143gr eldx ~2700fps
The equivalent 308 load would use 2208:
308win 200gr eldx ~2300fps
Yeah not factory ammo sorry I've never used factory stuffQuote:
Originally Posted by Yesmate
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Using faster powders just to get a 100% burn means sacrificing speed. Switch the PRC to 63gr of 2225 and GRT says you get 2775fps (and still a 99% burn, because reaching full chamber pressure burns more powder than an extra few inches of barrel).Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnetite
Also stick to a 165gr in the 308 and it'll tell you that you can reach 2600 with 43.5gr of 2206. Or 2700 with a 150gr and 44.5gr.
As far a shorter barrels go, when the Duleys did all of those bush pigs it was the .270 that come out on top wasn't it?
Something like a 145gr eldx getting over 2900 out of a shorter barrel with superformance powder. The general consensus was a magnum suppressor with 18" and no shorter than that.
I have a .308 and if I punch those numbers into the ballistics app makes the short barrel .308 looks like it has the trajectory of a brick.
The recoil will still be a lot less than any magnum and very manageable.
Put it this way, if guys off this forum can shoot deer with a .270 and lrab out to 800 odd yards going 2800ish with adi powder in a longer barrel. Then out of an 18" or 19" barrel with more modern powder going the same velocity you have a pretty versatile setup.
Worried about recoil, just download some 120gr or 130gr ssts or nosler ballistic tips for closer stuff.
How does 358 or 35 Whelan compare as a short barrel BP ?
I ignored 2225 because it's a compressed load. And went with 200gr for the 308 because it's a scaled up 270 145gr:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pommy
145x(308/277)^3 = 199gr
2225 in a long throated 270 would be a hoot though.
You could always just thread your 270 at it's current length and try it for a couple of hunts. If you don't like it you still have options.
I bush hunt with a suppressed 20 and a suppressed 22 inch rifle no problems.