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Thread: Unformed legal road/ Paper Road access

  1. #1
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    Unformed legal road/ Paper Road access

    Hey guys

    Im having a bit of a dilemma at the moment with paper road access.
    So there is a paper road through private property (which happens to be bee keeping land with free roaming stock), i was using to get onto the doc land here in south taranaki. I was informing the owner of access a day or two in advance out of courtesy and followed the rules he put in place like no loaded weapons through his property, no hunting on his property, etc. However after my last outing i was sent an email from said land owner saying something along the lines of not allowing access to his land anymore due to health and safety regulations. Now correct me if I'm wrong but, i didn't think you could block/ disallow access to paper roads as they are seen as unformed legal roads (coincidentally as they are named). I've done a bit of research into this and it would seem that it indeed is a paper road through the property as it is shown on topo maps, public access area maps, etc

    My question is, does his claim of the health and safety regulations have any impact/ credibility over paper roads or can i stick it to the man? (not literally, but i know you guys were thinking it that way).

    Thanks in advance for the help guys
    ~JellyBean
    PERRISCICABA likes this.

  2. #2
    Member Shearer's Avatar
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    Experience. What you get just after you needed it.

  3. #3
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    It's not his land.
    systolic and rewa like this.

  4. #4
    Member Paddy79's Avatar
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    Paper roads "unformed legal roads” have the same legal status as any other legal road. Public can pass and re-pass over them on foot, on horseback or in vehicles. The local council owns and administers all roads in its district (except highways) it is responsible for paper roads.
    Dam right im Pro Guns, Look at History

  5. #5
    Member BRADS's Avatar
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    Ok we have 2 paper roads on our farm so here is my take on it.
    Yes the farmer can the close paper road if he believes it unsafe, eg a old bridge,
    He still must provide walking access, and most happily will if you respect there operation.
    In a lot of cases the actual formed track is not on the paper road, and yes in some cases the farmer may of actually purchased the road.
    I have never seen the council maintain the paper road in my or my dad's time.


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    karlos and PERRISCICABA like this.

  6. #6
    Member PillowDribbler's Avatar
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    Roads are either formed or unformed,they both have the same legal status and can be travelled over with any method you like.They are administered by the local council now so go to them if its an ongoing problem.A lot of farmers graze these roads for weed control or plant plantation trees on them but they cant stop you from using them.Wams have got maps of road reserves,property titles.reserves,river hydro,national parks and foresrtry parks.

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    Many people use H&S as an excuse not to let people do stuff, mostly because their accountant, Lawyer or friend who doesn't understand the H&S at work act has scared them.

    It is an interesting scenario really. in my opinion he is not responsible for the H&S of a public road which, by my understanding, is what a paper road is by law. However if he has introduced a hazard/risk that you may encounter while on the 'paper road' then he could be held accountable. If he has introduced a hazard you could encounter then all he has to do is advise you of any hazards and any controls required. e.g. there is a bull in that paddock, don't go in it. or there is machinery operating in XYZ wear hi-viz and ear protection. (I do H&S for a crust)

    If I were you I'd call the guy and just have a good chat to him, having him on side will be much easier than fighting him about it.

  8. #8
    Member ROKTOY's Avatar
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    Follow proper legal channels to be certain of where you stand. Quite often a formed road/track may not follow the legal boundaries of the road due to a slip, terrain etc. And if the road/track is unformed then you would have to be able to prove you were actually on the road, as quite often a track may follow the 'general' direction or path of a ULR but not be completely accurate so you may in fact be traversing private land thinking you are on a ULR.
    As Shearer stated, start by communicating with WAMS
    BRADS likes this.

  9. #9
    Member BRADS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Povnation View Post
    Many people use H&S as an excuse not to let people do stuff, mostly because their accountant, Lawyer or friend who doesn't understand the H&S at work act has scared them.

    It is an interesting scenario really. in my opinion he is not responsible for the H&S of a public road which, by my understanding, is what a paper road is by law. However if he has introduced a hazard/risk that you may encounter while on the 'paper road' then he could be held accountable. If he has introduced a hazard you could encounter then all he has to do is advise you of any hazards and any controls required. e.g. there is a bull in that paddock, don't go in it. or there is machinery operating in XYZ wear hi-viz and ear protection. (I do H&S for a crust)

    If I were you I'd call the guy and just have a good chat to him, having him on side will be much easier than fighting him about it.
    Most farmers understand health and safety very well.
    Please remember in most cases around here the paper road is a grass track never been maintained buy anyone but the farmer, you put your old Subaru over the cliff and on a track that isn't where the paper road is and guess who's going to court.

    I hope this doesnt turn into a another farmer bashing thread, then you guys wonder why you find locked gates...

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    Rich007, kokako, Nickoli and 5 others like this.

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  11. #11
    Member Paddy79's Avatar
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    @BRADS is 100% correct council do not maintain them, farmers can deny access due to hazards like tree felling or spraying, ignore their signs and your fucked, and many paper roads have since been purchased, so contacting said farmer for what is going on is helpful, and remember tracks wash out so what is now the main track may very well be not the paper road and you are Trespassing
    Dam right im Pro Guns, Look at History

  12. #12
    Member Ryan_Songhurst's Avatar
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    Even if he's in the wrong he probably just got sick of dickheads abusing their "right" to cross his property, farmers don't just wake up one day and say "you know what, I feel like being a cunt"
    We have a paper road through our place and last weekend had one lot of dickheads shooting on our property itself because they "got lost trying to find the riverbed" and another lot hooning around shooting and spotlighting in the river bed which is not our land but illegal anyhow and they were spoligbting onto the property itself also, ended up with the police out here. Its this type of behaviour that makes you think fuck it, I don't care if they're "allowed" to use that access point, they can all fuck off... case of the minority ruining it for the majority I'm afraid, get a bigger violin
    gadgetman, kokako, ebf and 7 others like this.
    #27GANG

  13. #13
    Member GravelBen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BT50 View Post
    It's not his land.
    This is correct.

    Being a legal road means its public land - he doesn't have any more right to use it than you do, and he isn't allowed to block it off. But that doesn't necessarily mean vehicle access is practical or expected.

  14. #14
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    All the posts stating that the unformed road is a legal road and has the same status as a formed road are correct. I can only add that you must be able to prove that you are on the legal road if challenged and not on private land. I would go to the local Council with a written request to use the road at your own risk for access from time to time and a complaint that your use of the roadway is currently being prevented by the adjoining landowner. If the farmer has applied to have the road closed, then it is the Council that will hold those records. Farmers may place gates over unformed roads but may not lock those gates or in any other way obstruct the roadway such as fencing over it ( as GravelBen states above). If you find this situation go to the Council concerned.
    gadgetman likes this.

  15. #15
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    I have a farm with paper road in mind.... It's a bulldozed track maintained by the farmer, through the middle of his land. I guess if it was formed one day it would be a proper road all fenced off no gates etc. But it's not.... So if you were the farmer.... You wouldn't mind strange people passing through your padocks/gates and stock any time they wish and maybe carrying a firearm?
    It could also be unsafe, what if the farmer is shooting and doesn't know someone is there, among other hazzards, the way the world is if something happened it would be the farmers fault for sure!
    You did the right thing by asking, it's only polite. But he's changed his mind, leave it at that.
    Steve123 and Blisters like this.

 

 

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