https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/west-coast
More Doc problems and ignorance with the upcoming 1080 drop in whataroa with keas eating the prefeed.
How bloody stupid are these conservationists??? Of course keas are going to eat 1080 ffs.
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https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/west-coast
More Doc problems and ignorance with the upcoming 1080 drop in whataroa with keas eating the prefeed.
How bloody stupid are these conservationists??? Of course keas are going to eat 1080 ffs.
Sheer stupidity.
Who is ZIP? Where do they get all this money, just to waste it on something this dumb
ZIP = Morgan et al.
Lets train the kea to scavenge carcasses more so they they can look for dead animals post drop and die of secondary poisoning.
Unexpected outcomes Ethos, who would have thought, certainly not a left leaning pen pusher!
ZIP = zero invasive pests
http://zip.org.nz/#newsletter
I see they are looking for rangers so if any of you can count to 30,000 on one hand maybe you can apply [emoji23]
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Again, I'm not going engage with the mindless hateful posts, but there are a couple of things worth noting:
1: If this operation is successful, possums will be eradicated from that block. ZIP have successfully eradicated possums entirely from a smaller area last year down near Haast, there is a good chance that they will succeed here. The Whataroa/Perth only receives 1080 for possum control (every so often when monitoring shows high numbers). If possums are eradicated, it will never be 1080'd again. That's a win for everyone, surely.
2: Kea already eat dead tahr, and there is no shortage of dead tahr in the Whataroa/Perth tops. A few more carcasses dropped up there will not train them to do anything new.
The problem with "eradicating" possums from an area using 1080 is that it also eradicates a whole a shit tonne of other species at the same time, its indescriminate and DOC is kidding themselves by thinking anything other than that.
I haven't read up on this latest drop but from what I understand they are attempting to encourage Kea to stay on the tops and feed from carcasses whilst the drop goes on?
Kea by their very nature are inquisitive creatures and they also travel vast distances seemingly out of pure curiosity, it's a joke to think that they're not going to pick up baits based solely on the assumption that there's plenty of dead tahr laying about for them to feed on, I have found a Kea nest before and it was quite comical the amount of random objects the cheeky buggers had stashed there, 1 308 case, a couple of plastic spoons, bits of string, and all manner of trinkets they had pinched on their travels, if their are baits laying about, they will at least pick them up if not eat them then and there not to mention probably having a bit of a poke around any dead possums they find also. What is also amazing in that area is just how high up above the bushline possums can be found
Its a big risk to drop 1080 into such an important kea habitat when its well known how inquisitive and curious the kea are by their nature.
They have witnessed them eating the prefeed so its a given they will eat the 1080 pellets.
The carcasses of tahr have been scattered through the area since the beginning of the tahr ballot and yet they are still consuming prefeed baits so how will this help to distract them from the bait?
Its a difficult issue as the possum problem needs addressed but its a huge gamble to use aerial 1080 and given the fact they are consuming prefeed then is it prudent to continue?
What percentage of kea mortality will be acceptable given the net benefits to the envirnoment?
Eradication of possums from one small area is pointless unless the plan is to hammer everywhere.
I know of places there were no possums in the 70's but have healthy populations now.
If Zip works the plan will be to blanket the country.
Doc also claimed at one time they would never use 1080 again if they killed kea.
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This reference to eradication is nonsense., We were camped in the Whataroa in March 2012 following a 1080 operation which aimed to eradicate possums. No doubt it was effective; there was no sign of any possums.........or deer.........or birdsong.
So that "eradication operation" has lasted 6 years and still DOC's propaganda machine rolls on.
The appearance of birdsong levels is not an accurate or reliable measure of mortality or bycatch. It is anecdotal evidence at best.
There is credible independant science around the by catch and mortality rates of native birds.
Believe it or not, there are people both within doc and outside of doc that have a real vested interest and passion for our native flora and fauna. It's not all propaganda and in most cases 1080 does have a real measurable (positive) effect on bird populations.
Is it an ideal tool? Hell no. It's non specific and imo pretty cruel. But the issue is nowhere near as black and white as it's made out to be, and there is as least as much misinformation from the anti side as there is from the pro doc media.
IMHO I think one thing it to forget about the whole "1080" label. I's helicopter doped poison of any type will always have some by-kill weather it was brodifacoum, cyanide, phosphorus or any number of nasty things. The Kia is one of my favorites and don't doubt that some are collateral. And yes eradication is likely a fantasy, the possums will be back. Even some of the pencil pusher that I have met will privately admit this.
Maybe we should start looking at sponsoring our own alternatives? Auto traps serviced by hunters? Crazy idea but I just a thought.
They have had people up there for a while running traps, now they are going to 1080, why not keep them up there running the traps
ZIP have done quite a lot of research in this direction as well. They have determined, as best as they can tell, the trap density required to detect/eventually catch low numbers of possums remaining in or re-invading an eradicated area based on possum home range size and behaviour. They have developed leghold traps that have a daytime lockout (to avoid by-catch of kea - a lot of traps kill kea, which everyone seems to be concerned about. 1 dead kea to 3000 trap nights with regular leg hold traps is a back-of-the-envelope number I've heard) and use a low-frequency radio system to alert when they've been sprung, so that they don't have to be checked daily. It's all good stuff that is promising for poison-free maintenance of an area once initial reduction in numbers is achieved.
It depends on what bias you bring and project onto their decision making. It could be what you say, or it could be that they legitimately don't want to kill kea, and are trying to mitigate the risk.
Either way they're monitoring kea with radio collars through the operation, and have publicly reported the bykill from their last operation (a handful of birds and something like 3 deer I think) so there's no indication that they won't report it this time: If they find that these baiting methods kill too many kea then they don't want to use them. No-one in conservation wants to kill native birds.
Here you go for anyone thats interested
http://zip.org.nz/findings/2018/5/go...a2de-502895529
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Some of the selective poisoning systems I understand are in development sound impressive. They can tell the difference between "Visitors" and as you say, radio for more supplies when empty. The concept is to build a defensive ring around cleared areas to slow down re-infestation. Let's hope.
Hmm
ZIP culling tahr? Drop might be off?
Plot thickens
“The Department of Conservation says it is reconsidering its permission for a test-case 1080 drop near Whataroa, after kea were seen eating non-toxic baits laid before the aerial poison drop.
Zero Invasive Predators (Zip) is trying to rid the Perth River catchment of possums.
It has already done the prefeed, which was to be followed by a 1080 drop with double the usual dose of poison.
However, the Greymouth Star reported last Thursday that kea had been seen eating the baits.
Doc Western South Island operations director Mark Davies, of Hokitika, said today Zip had now completed tahr culling in the area, which had been authorised as part of Doc's work in managing the tahr population under the Wild Animal Control Act.
Zip had hoped the kea would then eat the tahr carcases rather than the poisoned baits.
"As per a clause in the permission given to Zip to undertake the operation, Doc is reconsidering the permission for Zip to apply aerial 1080 because of the recent evidence of kea interaction with the prefeed bait," Mr Davies said.
"This decision will be made in the coming weeks."
It would need to balance whether the risks to kea were outweighed by the potential long-term benefits for the birds in the research area, and the potential to remove all pests from an area, Mr Davies.
That would mean less aerial 1080 would be required in the future.
A kea repellent could be sown prior to dropping the toxic baits, as another mitigation method, he said.
"Tahr carcases have already been collected and distributed in order to be prepared if a decision is made to continue with the operation. There may be further mitigation measures required." “
https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/west-c...hink-1080-drop
The good thing with ZIP is they don’t seem to have an agenda apart from wiping out pests, in that they are up front about the good & bad of it all. I’m guessing they are the ones who observed the bait eating & reported it?
So Looks like DOC are finally having to acknowledge that 1080 does kill kea, now that there is hard evidence they are eating the pre-feed. In the past they have just ignored it, turned a blind eye, etc Puts them in a bit of a spot, if they let it go ahead & it wipes them out it could open a big can of worms!
...and it’s on again: https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/west-c...ite-threat-kea
What a joke after 70 years of using 1080 is this the first trail to see if kea will eat the bait or perhaps its the first "public trial "vs some random dead tahr scattered above the bush line , let alone the fact they have now totally lost any prefeed benefits they did weeks ago utter shambles & yet a total insight to what is actually going on behind the scenes , how about all the robins & other native birds will they head above the bush line to eat the tahr as well or just be the norm bykill that no one really understands
Its got to be a real gamble to continue with the drop given the knowledge they have regarding the prefeed results.
Lets hope the by kill is minimal, but i still think its an unacceptable risk and other options would should have been explored.
considering the way health and safety runs things now I cant see how this works.
Bear with me here-in this day in age of risk assessments, before you do anything at most workplaces you potentially have to do one before you carry out the task to identify hazards and mitigate them.
Obviously the risk of a potential massive by-kill no matter the species is not to bad.
This has always been the issue-they want them gone and manage/talk themselves into believing its all for the greater good no matter the result.
Remember years ago when they said it would kill big animals, then it wouldn't kill other animals, then it wouldn't kill birds?
Nature should not be controlled with poisons.
Could it just be that ZIP and DOC actually know what they are doing and what the risks are, and will do all they can to ensure that the best environmental outcome will be achieved?
Its pretty easy to type reactionary comments on here and hope for the worst. Its more difficult to be objective and hope for the best.
It’s a gamble. “Best environmental outcome” is right up there with “Net benefit”: unmeasurable of course.
The tagged kea ARE measurable though so fingers crossed they are ok - and all the other untagged uncounted ones.
I’m sure ZIP and DOC very much don’t want to kill kea, Equally with poison drops we know they sometimes do, they average between 12-13% per drop from previous drops where they actually tagged, mostly they don’t count, sometimes they kill en masse ( and blame human interaction, never mind prefeeding them or shooting animals for them)
I’ve not seen a single post hoping for the worst, this just looks shabby.
As far as en masse : 7 of the 9 tagged birds died of 1080 at North Okarito 2011 during that study.
The blaming human interaction was the Fox Franz kea deaths in 2008 I think or maybe Otira deaths 2013 some press release or other, it sounded like bullshit anyway.
This article was as close to the truth as it is possible to find, its DoCs researchers internal communication saying kea benefit is “uncertain” from poison, read the whole thing, it’s quite different from the PR that gets officially released https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/...ions-uncertain
“They said it was not advisable to expose nationally critical or endangered birds to aerial 1080 baiting unless evidence showed the birds did not consume non-toxic baits.”
So no, DoC clearly don’t know what they are doing when they are not taking their own advice :)
Roll the dice.
Interesting. Well, they are taking their own advice in so much as they are using a couple different mitigation methods that to my knowledge were not considered in 2016. (baiting and pre-feeding repellent). I'm happy to sit on my hands and wait and see what the outcome of this ZIP operation is. I expect it will be something of a watershed in one way or another. But I will willingly put my hands up if it goes pear shape.
We won’t hold you personally responsible Tahr :)
Let’s hope no deaths and we can all be happy- problem being that no deaths this time doesn’t mean the same next time it’s such a bodged unscientific gamble.
I would like to see bycatch research done by an independent body, not those that have a vested interest in covering their ass to continue to push their agenda. I don't believe a word that anyone from either of those organisations say. Fingers crossed for a good outcome but as @ethos has pointed out it's just a gamble really and can and will go one way or the other, if its a success there's going to be some serious tennis elbow going on from all the patting themselves on the back and we wont hear the end of it as they use it as propaganda for the poison machine, if its a complete fuck up we MIGHT be lucky enough to hear about it, we might get fed some bullshit and told it was a success anyhow, who knows, the only thing that is known, and proven, is that nothing is beyond a lot of those in the DOC organisation
yip shooting as a means of control doesnt have a 100% sucess rate either as far as non target species goes...any one for a greeny feathered pukeko stew???
fingers crossed that somehow this works without killing the kea....... what would be the logistical probability of prefedding them to get them into localised area then capturing them in cage traps or mist nets and keeping them contained for say 3 weeks untill drop has been and finished...then been washed out...ok make that 3 months..then releasing them again????
I don't know what your worried about its called by catch. Who is going to be concerned with the death of a few Kea if they can kill kiwis and nothing is done about it. The bottom line is DOC is a law unto it self and they are answerable to no one.