"I think all the Scully posts are just a pisstake from someone"
My thoughts as well Sako75....was a good laugh though....aye!
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"I think all the Scully posts are just a pisstake from someone"
My thoughts as well Sako75....was a good laugh though....aye!
He did seem to know who all the old buggers were aye ;) :thumbsup:
Having the right shooting skills, good judgement and enough self control, a 223/222 should be fine for deer(including stags).
However, only once these things above are sorted, try to go for something bigger. a 243 will offer both Varmint and Big game abilities.
I've shot 8-10 deer (including stags) with a 223 Rem and now my 223 Max. Personally, I believe that having enough self control to shoot or not shoot, consider what shot options are presented at the time(including bullet path/angle once in side the animal) and if you can be a very sneaky bastard while stalking, get into in. Otherwise, go bigger!
This was a summer time stag, stalked into about 10-12 meters and shot though the front of chest, down though the heart, with a 60gr Nosler Partition, going very, very, very fast(3550fps) out of my 223Max. It didn't take another step.
Bullet construction is pretty important too. The Partition is a great, well constructed bullet for deer, but can struggle to group in some rifles. I over came this by making it go faster.
Attachment 27508
Also had a few around 50-70 meters on spikers. Again, waiting for the correct shot to present itself and understanding that not shooting the deer in front of you is actually OK. I've walked away from animals after deciding that I cannot make the right shot at the time.
For the record, I do most (90%) of my hunting with 270WSM (140 or 150gr bullet) to ensure that I have a greater range of options when I find and animal, this includes; greater distance, better in the wind and if shooting just before dark, preventing the animal from running as far after a shot and not been able to recover it in the dark.
I shot 3 deer with 3 shots last night with the 223. A large hind, a large spiker and a stag. All 3 were shoulder shots at ranges between 150 and 200 metres. The spiker I pulled the shot slightly and shot him a bit far forward and he ran about 60 metres down into the scrub before keeling over. The other two dropped on the spot :D
The comments on regulations in the US are not unique to there. To hunt on DOC land here in NZ, we are require to use a 222 or bigger(so no 17 Fireball on DOC land). The now non-existent Sambar Deer Foundation also required a 270 or bigger for Sambar.
Also, it would be interesting to know how many deer were killed with the NZ Govenment (NZFS) supplied 222 ammo during the culling days?
In defence of the Quaterbore.
Worth pointing out that there is a misconception among non quarterbore shooters, that somehow .257 is "little - consider that the .260 that most of you consider as this great deep penetrating aerodynamic cartridge/round, is in fact only .03" larger in diameter than .257, a difference so close that you could shoot cast lead .260 projectiles in a .257 bore.
Comperable bullet weights used for the purpose of a little re education.
A 7mm Rem Mag 120gn Pro Hunter delivered at 3400fps is still doing 2409fps at 400yds and strikes with 1545 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .213.
A .257Wby 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3400fps is still doing 2450fps at 400yds and strikes with 1600 foot pound energy and has an SD of .260.
A .284 7mm08 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3100 is still doing 2160fps at 400yds and strikes with 1250 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .213.
A .260 Rem 120gn Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 2950 is still doing 2100fps at 400yds and stikes with 1250 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .247
A .257 2506 Rem 117 Sierra Pro Hunter delivered at 3100 is still doing 2210 at 400yds and strikes with 1268 foot pounds energy and has an SD of .260.
So, at 400yds a 2506 Rem has more velocity, more striking energy, and better SD than either the 7mmO8 or the .260 Rem, and these are only standard book max, the 2506 easily loads to much faster, it is normal to get handloads doing 3200fps without pressure. I have the 110gn Accubond doing 3300fps and the 100gn TTSX doing an easy 3400fps, that puppy kills heavy bodied red stags like they got hit by lightning.
So, at 400 yds the .257 Weatherby shades the "mighty" 7mmMag in speed, energy and SD, and SD tranlates directly into penetrative ability- depending on bullet construction, in this case the Sierra Pro Hunter, which lasks BC compared with it's counterpart the Sierra Game King, but is a much tougher bullet and out penetrates it every time (untill out past 400yds or so).The Wby and 7mm Mag will both load faster, but the Wby incrementally pulls away if you go down that route.
I have cleanly shot and killed with one round, heavy bodied adult Tahr out to 400yds many times, with the 117 Pro Hunter out of a 2506, it simply never fails . To imply a comparason with .223 is simply disingenious, and misinforms those without knowledge. The only advantages offered by the .260 and .284 are the heavier weight bullet options. I have a 2506, .270,.308,.257Wby, .270Wsm, 7mmMag, have shot and killed a number of animals with all of them and have first hand direct comparative experience. I would use a .223 for bunnies, hares, wallabies and magpies.
A previous poster refered to the FMJ rounds being used, tumbling because of projectile shape causing instability< spire point and boat tail- the tumble was due to the twist rates causing instability.
I was gonna say if you were running a 7mm or 6.5 why would you run shit bullets?
In case no one has told you the truth yet, the only way to kill deer is to let sunlight in to their body's.
So as you go higher up in caliber size the more sunlight you let in and thus kill the deer deader.
I would consider the sectional coverage of a .223 to be on the minimal side, a larger window of sunlight provided by a .243 would be preferred
Gloatingly comparing the worst possible bullets in 6.5/7mm that you'd have to be clinically retarded to use, to the best possible bullet in .25 cal fired out of possibly the silliest cartridge in existence: totally valid and useful
All this has for me thinking that I should try out a 6mm-thinking softair as if I get the right spot it should be golden
The troll under this bridge is missing the point deliberately.
Please explain why all the bullet manufacturers make those projectiles in those weights, and just how it is they continue to kill game around the world- would quite like it if you sent an email to: Sierra, Hornady, Swift, Nosler, Barnes, Speer, Berger and ask them if they consider their customers buying those projectiles and causing their constant high volume manufacture, are in fact retarded, would like the reply posted, assuming there was one.
Several hundred thousand current 2506 users may disagree with you, and the 117 Prohunter is not necessarally the best possible bullet in .257.
Disclaimer: this post may not feed this particular troll, keep your hands away fro the sides of the bridge at all times.
No calibre "knocks deer over". Write as much bull shit as you like about the .17 through to elephant guns. Fantasise about magnums, "quarter bores (WTF?)", 6mm or what ever.
Its the shock to the nervous systym that makes them appear to be knocked over by a bullet. and that is almost totally relient on bullet placement.
And hydrostatic shockwave.
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@Toby got me thinking bout a 338-06. He's like 'rain man' - I want 1 they sound awesome... (Honest:cool:)
So from what I have just read, would everyone think a .308 Win cartridge in a MSR (AR-10) or a bolt rifle (like a Tikka T3) running a 150gr - 200gr projectile be good enough with the right shot placement?
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but as James sully asked in the first post:
".223 can knock over a stag?
Wondering if it's got the power"
the answer would be "yes" but don't do it.
Using a bigger cartridge is better suited to be ethical and LEARN YOUR RIFLE, I.E. what it does in the wind, and at distance.
Join shooting club.
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Hydrostatic shock aside, if you blend up something's lungs, it will die regardless of caliber.
There are deer were I hunt wallabies I carry a 222 with me if one is dumb enough to stick around while I'm flattening roos I will be giving him or her a head ache
Sorry mate, nothing short of a .50cal will knock over a deer.....
Best stick to rabbits and possums
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