Wondering if it's got the power
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Wondering if it's got the power
Yep
If your asking that question ... I would think u best use a 308 or simliar.
I agree with both the above posts.
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A well thrown rock will also do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by James sully
Me threeQuote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
TO come on here and ask a question like that I have to agree with the other members about getting a bigger caliber to hunt with
Any rifle can with the correct shot placement
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"Knock over a stag", casually as if:" yeah mate,I just knocked over a stag", you "knock over stags" on a regular basis? I bet not, and if you take a .223 bush, am hoping you see nothing, ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by James sully
.223 is a small game and varmint/target round period.
With correct placement, the correct projectile and within short range, it will do it, but only for experienced hunters with a good understanding of animal anatomy.
-And in my book, correct placement does NOT include headshots.
Get a 165 gn .308 projectile and a 55gn .223 projectile, look up a ballistics programme applicable to each, then go find a deer farm with big strong breeding stags and look at them, preferably from up real close, think about where the projectile must go- and then look at the projectiles you are holding. If you still need told, I expect the telling would be wasted.
Yip, real close, like jump the fence and poke it with a stick close, works best round easter they are especially docile at that time of year;)Quote:
Originally Posted by 257weatherby
Thoroughly recommended for those with a need for an intensive period of "bonding" with poked stags!Quote:
Originally Posted by big_foot
If the question was "can I shoot most deer (and other large game) efficiently and humanely with a .223?" then the answer is NO. I have 2 mates who started shooting deer with AR-15's and I clearly communicated my dislike in them doing so and refused to shoot with them for ethical hunting reasons. After a couple of hunting trips where they both 'pricked' deer - they both 'upgraded' to AR-10's (.308).
I'm still not a fan of hunting/stalking deer with AR's ... but that's another subject and another day.
Keep safe ... cheers Gunzrrr
haha na man if u gota ask then no. if u have no other choice at least buy the right type of projectile for the job - i.e 60gr partition or barnes x etc . dont be throwing no 35gr v-maxs at him
Fine at bush ranges if you calm your tits enough to slot it in the lungs. Haven't personally killed one with a .223 myself, but mates have shot quit a few.
Attachment 27478
No. Don't bother.
Attachment 27479
Doesn't work. Unethical. Don't try.
(Ok so neither was a "stag" but the top one was a Wapiti/Red Cross and was a massive animal.)
James given your age I'm wondering if your enquiry was more to do with what calibre to choose. It depends on your target. Whilst you might be on a tight budget, I suggest you hold to the 'norm' that .223 is great for your lighter/smaller animals, you need the bigger bullet to quickly and humanely drop a bigger animal. Yes .308 comes to mind. If you only own one, borrow the other if you can if the hunting opportunity arises
Listen Rambo, for most it is not a sensible calibre to shoot large animals with, how many have you just injured and left (full of small calibre holes) to hide somewhere and die a slow and painfull death? you'll not be admitting to that anytime soon huh?. Go back to poking holes in hajies and slims with pissant 556, a newby does not need to be carting a .223 to shoot at large animals, and he certainly doesn't need to get the idea they are going to put in an ambush on him so he better carry big mags to supress them with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daggers_187
Most proper hunters get by with one shot, of adequate bullet construction, of adequate diameter and weight, and good placement.
One. There you go. I've shot seven deer with it in the the last 10 months. Eight if you count the one I couldn't find.Quote:
Listen Rambo, for most it is not a sensible calibre to shoot large animals with, how many have you just injured and left (full of small calibre holes) to hide somewhere and die a slow and painfull death?
Rambo? Was that really necessary?
Yes easy. I shoot 75-80% of my deer with my 223, have done for the last 5-10 years and I am usually shooting several deer a month. This past month I've shot 9 deer, all with the 223, all one shot. The last three have been red stags. I'll neck or head shoot most animals out to 100m, base of the neck to 150m and on a smaller red deer front shoulder out to 250m. That's about where I choose to get closer. I am only using 55gn hornady training ammo through mine.
It is a very effective calibre, in the right hands exceptionally accurate, but you NEED to know what your capabilities as a shooter are, what shots to take in what situations and always be prepared to walk away. I would not take my 223 away in the roar, a big red stag fired up is a different ball game to one relaxing in a scrubby gully. But regardless of calibre you need to place your shot carefully.
I have walked away from several animals because I was carrying a 223, and was not comfortable shooting them in that situation. I have only needed to back up shoot 5 or 6 that I can remember, certainly no more than some 2nd, 3rd or even 4th shots I've seen some hunters need out of the large calibre rifles.
Add to that, most of the most successful deer cullers here in NZ used smaller calibres like the 222 and 223, trading up from 303's etc. The heli cullers now are using AR based 223s mainly if they're not using buckshot. Literally thousands of deer of all shapes and sizes have been successfully killed with a 223.
Now if I was to recommend a calibre for a starting hunter, it would not be a 223. I'd be recommending a 243, 260, 308, 7-08, 270, etc. But learn how to shoot accurately with whatever gun and calibre you choose first before going and lobbing shots at deer. A 223 is a great calibre to put a lot of rounds through, say shooting hares and rabbits, or wallabies and goats, and at the same time to practice target acquisition , shooting positions, breathing, trigger control etc.
That was completely unnecessary, and reflects badly on the posterQuote:
Originally Posted by Daggers_187
Personally I would not pick a .223 in any platform to hunt deer, it's capable for it-just.
As has been said your margin of error is very small with .223 even with the right style of projectile.
If looking to buy a first rifle, but still wanting to have cheep ammo available for practice I would recommend .308. But good ammo for hunting,it's the cheapest part of the hunt and we owe it the the things we hunt to kill them as fast as we can
If you already have access to a .223 and nothing else then don't let that put you off hunting, your just going to need to have a very good understanding of anatomy and the skills to place the tiny bullet in the right place when in a state of excitement.
And most importantly be prepared to not shoot unless you get that perfect shot, this is harder in the field than talking/thinking about it at home
Some people have some bizarre ways of thinking
The .223 for me has been the best and most consistant calibre I have used on deer and such. On foot I have lost one animal due to bad judgment. I have lost shit loads more with the more PC calibers.
I have shot more deer with one than any other cal I have used ground shooting.
I have used one most of my time in machines as well.
Not a cal I would advise anyone to start out with, but certainly not as unethical and insufficient with the right load as some people claim.
I will always have one in my safe for harvesting meat for the table.
Hope you never fall off your horse, sounds like its a hell of a long way down.Quote:
Originally Posted by 257weatherby
Interesting, I have gone to a bigger calibre to give me a bigger margin of error if the shot is less than perfect although if you hit the wrong bit then won't help much.
Kinda like the differnce between being hit by a mini or a bus.
If either hit you dead center then its all over,
Slightly off center and still all over with the bus but maybe not so with the mini.
But if either only run your foot over all you end up with is a sore foot and a bit of a limp
Can someone point out the difference in margins of error on a deer sized target with a .22 centerfire opposed to a PC calibre please?
Not much really. A deers lungs are pretty big target wise. Perhaps penetration could be an issue from awkward angles.
kinda gotta be a good shot for it to be successful tho but yea 223 is enough
learn the deer anatomy and where it will die when you shoot it and it will be fine
I nailed a 120 pound pig with my 22 with 42grain subs two months back but it was standing side on at 40m and I can thread a needle with that rifle
pig dropped on the spot
deer would do the same if you have cut enough of them up to know where their spine is and sever it with the shot
dont try for a head/brain shot and dont shoot at anything moving, and if you are not confident pass on the shot and stalk closer
and yea iv lost count of how many bricks of 22 ammo iv been thru so shoot frequently and know your rifle
If you have an AR shoot service rifle it helps hone your practical accuracy and gives you confidence in your rifle. A V bull is roughly the same size as the chest target on a deer
This!Quote:
Originally Posted by Beavis
Knowing when to take or not take the shot is a big part of it, and that is a skill that's hard to impart
And also calibre irrelevant. Bad shot regardless of caliber is still a bad shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by res
So is everyone just marking time on this topic, waiting for the 'sully little bugger' to come back for another crack.
Yup
Even checked his page, hasn't come back today.
Probably doing his school work before he's allowed on the computer
Probably not, was in a hurry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daggers_187
Clearly, you are happy to shoot large animals with an inadequate for task tool, nothing I can or will say is going to change your m/o, just as you will never convince me to change mine, which by the way is to use a projectile that always punches deep, no matter what the angle, and loses enough off the nose to generate secondary wounding, and expands to create a decent wound channel, with more than the generally accepted minimum energy levels.
The scary thought for me, is that an inexperienced young fella reading/listening to these types of ....... debate, gets thinking he can run around with a .223 and "knock over stags", the fact that it is possible and has been done lots of times does not make it eithical. There are some states in the US and hunting areas around the world where it is illegal to use calibres that small even on smaller deer. There is a reason for that.
I find it amusing that someone who shoots a 257 weatherby is slinging shit at calibre selection :XD: :thumbsup: :P
ooh,thats nastyQuote:
Originally Posted by big_foot
It's hell on the magpies:XD:Quote:
Originally Posted by PerazziSC3
A fragile projectile out of a larger caliber at decent speed gives a lot more margin for error on a neck shot than 223, for instance a 130gr hp or 150 sst stoked up out of any half decent 30 cal chambering will all but amputate the head of the biggest stag on a high neck shot weather the spine is hit or not.
However those same projectiles up close on a worked up stag covered in mud in the shoulder just make a big mess of the shoulder and fail to do any real damage to the engine room.
A sturdy projectile out of the same enables within reason any angle shot at the engine room, but plus 300 while it will penetrate it won't do a whole lot of damage and it may run a bit.
Heavy fragile projectiles out of the same will still drop lung shot deer on the spot +600y
Projectile selection for the job is absolutey the key.
I am not a ex culler too young for that dam it and i don't own a massive farm covered in deer either, despite that I have shot more than a few deer and witnessed at least as many shot with all sorts of calibers.
I have had a few cockups of course if you haven't then you have shot Fuck all.
Witnessed a fair few too,but the lost animals can be counted on one hand.
I have even witnessed a fallow buck taken at over 500y with a 223 and Kentucky windage before the range finder revolution and ranged ten years later.
It went about 20 yards.
A new hunter is unlikely to be reloading, is probably on a tight budget and will shoot whatever is cheap that works.
federal blue box fits the bill for most in most calibers for close to medium ranges.
All this taken into account while the 223 is a capable caliber I personalbly would never recommend it as a deer caliber to a new hunter.
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I took three fallow hinds over the weekend. Hit with 55gr zmax out of my AR. First one was hit straight in the head and went down before I heard the smack return, other two were shoulder hit and went all of 5-10 metres. Recovered those two projectiles under the skin on the off side shoulder. Its all about the placement as has been said. Know your limits and only fire if damn sure its going down.
I have seen a mate drop a 12pt Red on it's arse with a LH T3. It weighed 75kg on the hook. Can't place enough emphasis on placement. So critical on larger animals
I used the same rifle on a Fallow. Felt strange shooting a LH
I think all the Scully posts are just a pisstake from someone
Be interesting if the admins could do a match on the IP adress and see if he's a regular :DQuote:
Originally Posted by sako75
